Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Brandon Weik and myself want to share this photo of a true captive born Sabogae Island Boa. These animals are absolutely incredible and very different from the BCI found in the Panama region.

These boa's are a dwarf race and tend to be more arboreal and laterally compressed.

This is a new project for the Boa Community and we hope to have babies available in the near future!

www.sabogaeislandboas.com coming soon!

Thank you,
Rich Ihle

Home of the Ultimate in Designer Boa Contrictors

I imagine it is difficult to pick up a sabogae group. How old are your animals in the group?

Good luck with them

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

l
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Thanks and take care - Joe Rollo
'Tis not the stongest of the species that will eventually survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change' Charles Darwin

I think it would be fair to say that the pure offspring will
fetch a higher going price than any of the morphs that
MUST have at least some Sabogea blood in them...

Just curious, as I know I have heard many people say that hypos were/are from crossing sabogae into colombians/panamanians etc, but I have yet to hear/see any PROOF of it..Not trying to start an arguement, just curious as to the facts, or lack there of in this instance.

My reasoning behind my lack of faith in this theory is, if it was a simple intergrade wouldn't it make sense the more outcrossing that is done the less likely it would carry the appearance of sabogae? I sure haven't seen many colombian X Hoggs that resemble hoggs after a second generation of breeding.

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

It could be that there just happen to be genetic mutant that
just 'happens to' appear, 'visaully' only of course EXACTLY like the boa in that posted picture...

It IS possible, but I sincerely doubt it. What would you
rather own? Or to be more direct if you could have a breeding
project of either which would 'today' reel in a higher profit?

That's what I was referring to.

I agree that it is somewhat unusual that an animal that appears in a specific locality has the appearance of morph in a totally seperate locality.. But with the theory that it is impossible, or atleast extremely unlikely, you can also say that central american hypos must be derived from the sabogae bloodline as well.

As far as which breeding group would I rathe work with? I personally will pick the salmon/hypo projects over sabogae since I already own hypos and plan to do multiple morph combinations.

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

Did I make the moderator nervous?

Or was that 'just' a coincidence?

Thanks,
tc

I think it has to do with a thread that was removed earlier today regarding a lawsuit...Won't say anymore or this will be removed as well..lol

Later
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

hehehe....

OK...If sabogaes are in fact where the hypos came from, then why was the first litter produced not 100% hypo? Wouldn't every single sabogae out there have to be "super sabogae"? I would guess that if thats where the co-dominant hypos we all work with came from, then breeding a sabogae to a colombian would produce litters of nothing but hypos.I just don't think it is the same gene at work.

would be like breeding a persian cat to a farmers cat. Only fools would do this.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

I understand your point. It is silly to do the breeding, however if that is how you and others are saying that the hypomelanistic bci came into being(through cross breeding), and hypomelanism is co-dominant,then surely all of the b.c.sabogae are super hypos since they are the result of centuries of hypo to hypo breedings. They would produce all hypos when crossed to a
wild type bci. To my knowledge, the first hypos also had normals in the litter, which defies the laws of the dominant hypo. I think that if you want to nit pick and say that all morphs are crosses, then you need to back it up. I am not saying that I want to see sabogaes crossed with bci, but that is the only way we would be able to see if the result of the cross is a genetically passed hypomelanism. If there is even a single normal bci looking neo in the litter, then the idea that our hypo boas came from sabogaes should be stricken, as it is obviously passed in a different manner.

genotypes.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think it is that hard to see
the similarities here. I've seen hypo boas that were much darker
than that picture of that Sabogea boa. Lets say a naturally
hypo Columbian boa was bred with a Sabogea, then what would
happen? Not a regular boa, but one with the hypo trait already
in its genetic makeup...

Although photypically they are similar. It sounds like you are saying that the sabogae's hypomelanism is passed kind of like pastel, through line breeding, and not as a codominant. If it were the same gene used in making hypo bci, then that wouldnt be the case.So what is your arguement?

np

I think the purists either don't understand or don't want to because it destroys the basis that there theory is based upon. Let me try and make it a little easier for them... If sabogae locality boas are the animals that produced hypomelanistic boas then they HAVE TO be genetically hypomelanistic, not just a line bred trait from generations of isolated breedings. And IF they are genetically hypomelanistic, and because they are isolated and only have other hypomelanistic animals to breed with after a few generations ALL sabogae ARE SUPER forms of the hypomelanistic gene. So if you bred a sabogae to a colombian ALL of the offspring would be codominant hypomelanistic boas, not just a percentage of the litter. Does that clear it up any?

probably not... and btw, I agree that sabogae would be pointless to breed into a colombian line, it would be a pointless breeding since a genetic form of that appearance already exists.(the hypomelanistic/salmon trait..)
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

Why are there different degrees of BCI hypos?

Why aren't they all equally light colored and reddish?

I've seen plenty of darkish hypos, and I've also seen
plenty of hypos that look exactly like that picture of
the Sabogea.

Phenotypically, albino's are either albino or not albino, granted there are different types of albinos, but you don't see
variations of lightness...

I'm just curious, this is not a court of law. I'm not a
purist, but I'm not going to let popular perception cloud
my judgement either.

Thanks,
tc

I understand that, and agree with that outlook on any and all aspects of boa keeping/breeding/collecting.

I think the main reason a huge variety of hypomelanistic boas are found in captivity today is more to do with the appearance of the animals that particular line has had in the development. If you look at double het sunglows a majority of them are muddy, somewhat heavily speckled, and quite ugly in general, The main reason this would be is that when you are breeding to make sunglows speckles are not an issue so any hypo to any albino will work to make the dh offspring. dh ghosts are the same way.

Now if you look at lines that have been refined to make the best appearance possible you will find clean, brightly colored animals that show the best of what the hypomelanistic/salmon trait has to offer.(Rich Ihle at salmonboa.com is a prime example of making the best of what can be done with the salmon traits)
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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do

"If sabogae locality boas are the animals that produced hypomelanistic boas" -

Hey, I didn't say that, or imply that. There are hypos in most
boa species. Maybe my post above wasn't very clear.

It appears, to my eyes at least, that there are more than just one genotypical trait involved here.

.
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IF YOU HAVE IT SHOW IT. IF YOU OWN IT FLAUNT IT!!

I am glad to see the enthusiasm of the forum members for this rare locality specific boa which is poised on the brink of extinction or rather extinct in the wild.

The Sabogae are something very special and knowing them in the hands of an experienced breeder like Rich is almost a guarantee for preventing them from demise.

I believe that my informations that Rich will keep them pure are correct and I am very glad about this.

As a matter of fact, crossing such a scarce boa with a morph would not only mean to foster its demise but also to burn money *LOL

By the way Rich wrote that they seem laterally compressed. That's true. Some of mine tend to get a figure like a blood python.
Boa constrictor

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Beware of Commies and Mutts!

How much for a pair?

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Joemac

http://www.boaconstrictor.cjb.net

pronounce Sabogae?
Dave @ East TN Reptiles

Good luck with them Rich. We've come to expect great things from you!!

Great project.... put us on the list

http://www.boa-constrictors.com/com/sonstigeUnterarten/sabogae.html