Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I read about a year ago about a guy in "Reptiles mag" that had kept and breed kingsnakes for about 30 years, he said that he
Often kept 2 to 3 (never two males) in the same habitat? And in the 30 years had only 2 problems (two males, one much larger) had killed each other--- some of you may remember this article?
I think it had something to do with "captive, breeding, raising
Something, something of colubrids,,,

The reason I’m bringing this up is because I’m considering (do to a small space problem right now) on trying this with two, one male and one female cal-kings about 12 to 14 inches long?

The guy suggested to place separate hides and water bowls for the two snakes and to feed them separately, but that they can
Coexist???? What do you all think?
I can't find that mag for nothing, maybe one of you have it? And could read over it and reply with an opinion -----------

Thanks and "let the flaming commence"--lol

putting two of them together doesn't guarantee a tragedy. But it can happen:
1) i left a pair of chain kings together over a weekend during breeding season, while i left town on a short trip. I figured the reproduction imperative wouild overrule the feeding imperative. I lost. When i got back the female had eaten the male (who was only about 4 inches shorter).
2) the first-ever anerythristic honduran MILKsnake--generally, people attribute more cannibalistic behavior to kings than to milks--was killed by cagemates. Itd happened after she'd been raised to adulthood and was on the eve of her first breeding season. The owner removed the females to feed them in separate cages, then returned them. The next morning he found the anery female dead, with obvious constriction marks. The hypothesis was that some rodent scent remained on her from the feeding, prompting an "attack" that resulted in her being killed, though not eaten.

It's sorta like drinking and driving: disaster won't strike EVERY time--but is it a risk you should take? (as someone who's been the victim of an auto accident in which the other driver was drunk, let me be quick to point out that i DO recognize a huge difference in degree, i'm not comparing the consequences, only the decision making process)

peace
terry

The article was about Bob Appelgate. I can't seem to find my copy right now either....but, IIRC he was talking about his milksnakes, and said that Getulas are more prone to cannabalism then the other species.
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Ace

Yes, ditto ---- I may be wrong but I have this strong "remembering"-wth? -lol ,,, that he said
He kept kings in those conditions as well, but I do recall
The comment about getulas - thanks for reminding me
D

I have a small female florida king that ate it's slightly larger cagemate!!! This happened about two weeks after hatching. So even a slightly smaller snake can become cocky at times AND SUCCEED!!!!!
Who knows??? Some snakes that have eaten rodents all their lives usually don't become cannibalistic (USUSALLY, LOL).

Take care, and good luck

ZEE

The article is written by Bob Applegate and I beleive you can find it on his web site in the info section or archives. His discussion focuses on the keeping of pyro pyro mtn kings in a communal setting. Most of the accounts I have incountered with cannibalism has been with Getula.

I have maintained and bred numerous colubrid species including several subspecies of getula in pairs/trios year round in the same enclosure for the last 14 years and have had (1) incident. This incident was the result of pairing a wild caught speckled king male with a smaller albino speckled female. I fed him a few days prior hoping this would reduce the risk of a feeding mishap but in this case it didn't.

I never house hatchlings/juviniles together it's too risky until they have established a feeding habit of strictly rodents. I also don't normaly house pairs/trios that have a significant size difference. I use triple compartment cages with 2 drawers so animals can be segragated for feeding, cleaning, egglaying, ect.

To summerize: if you start out with captive produced hatchlings and feed them only mice/rats then put them together after their first brumation (1 1/2- 2 1/2 yrs old), seperate when feeding, you shouldn't have any mishaps. This dosen't mean it can't happen, this has just been my experiance.

Tad
Captivebred.com

Thanks, Tad -and everyone else who replied, here's the link to
Applegates site - I don't think that was the exact article, but
What Applegate says near the end of the article totally changes
My ever evolving opinion about these amazing animals, I often
Drift back and forth between species, and just when the care
Of my current collection of kingsnakes starts to become redundant
I learn something else that re-inspires change and progression.

excerpt from applegatereptiles.com
"If you decide to keep a colony of adult kingsnakes in one cage, only have one male in each group or they can combat and either injure each other, or the loser will be intimidated and will not eat and will do poorly. Kingsnakes are famous for being cannibals, but I keep groups of four to six together year round and have had only one problem in 30 years. One of my female California banded kingsnakes insisted she would eat this certain male if caged together. She would mix well with any other male or female, and he with any other females. I was never able to explain this, but it reaffirms the old adage, "There are always exceptions to the rules".

The common or banded kingsnakes (getula) are the ones most likely to eat other snakes, but all kingsnakes are capable of it. It is very important to isolate each kingsnake for feeding, then wait a while before putting it back in the group. If a hungry kingsnake smells food and something moves, or they both go after the same food item, that is where your accidents happen."-Robert Applegate - respectivly stolen from www.applegatereptiles.com
..........
a colony ? ---Hell yea!

http://www.applegatereptiles.com/

just wondering if you could do anything else to alleviate your space crunch and be able to fit all your snakes in without having to risk sticking them together. Flat sweater boxes don't take up much room and can be stacked several high while still providing your animals some room to move around. Get creative, I'm sure you can figure something out!
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Sue Barnett
1.0 Florida King (Vega)
0.1 Western hognose (Sola)
0.1 Egyptian spiny mouse (Mia)
4.2 mini rex rabbits (Basil, Pippin, Reggie, Hayden, Jackie and Peek-a-boo)
0.1 Plott hound (Molly)
1.0 half Arab (Zarr)
1.0 Betta (to be named once he lives out the 7-day warrantee)

yea, your right but the heat thing?

Those snakes you suggest havent established either dominance or preferred feeding habits.Housing long term adults together can be done as long as feeding is monitored over a significant period of time...and NEITHER is allowed to get too hungry.Size differences and dominance are given off in pheremone form much the same way that ovulating females do.If you notice the first time one king meets another they either 1)mate 2)eat each other or 3)establish dominance(not necessarily physically).Its only through these SUBTLE interactions that YOU will know which snakes will be compatable to be housed together.These have not yet been established so I would tell you not to do it unsupervised,Jeff

Wow! Does this bring back memories! I have a polaroid picture that is at least 31 years old of an aquarium with a banded Cal king from around Brea, a blk. and white banded from upper S2 in San Diego county, a blk and white banded from Joshua Tree, and an intergade between a banded and a striped from just north of Temecula(thesewere all snakes I caught). All were wild caught and all lived together fine for several years. In fact I had the Brea snake and the striped/banded from Temecula breed and produce 9 little guys two years after the picture. Of course this was all before I knew you weren't suppose to do such things, back in the dark ages of snake keeping. I wouldn't do it again only because it's easier to moniter the guys when kept in their own cages. Seperating for feeding was a real bear!!!!!

Preacher Pat