Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I recently purchased a WC Ambilobe male (online), and have come to discover he has filarial worms. I can't seem to find to much info on this problem. Is this something that will eventually kill my Ambilobe if I don't have them removed? Will they just continue to live off him with no real adverse affects to him? Can these be spread to a female during mating? Can anyone give me a ballpark price on having them removed?

Thanks, Chris

The Filarial Nematode is very common in w/c old world chameleons.
They are transmitted to the chameleon via arthopods, such as
mosquitos. They have a indirect life cycle and live in the
blood stream of the chameleon. Generally they live with these
parasites in the wild with little adverse affects. Because they
live in the blood stream of the host and can migrate through the
organs of the host, you cannot use anti-parasitic drugs like
Ivermectin. If your chameleon has alot of the worms, I would have them removed. It will probably be a ongoing process, because
more will migrate under the skin. If he does not have a heavy
infestation, I would leave them alone. If he is in good shape he
will probably live for a long time, with no adverse affects.

Legendcham

I disagree with Legendcham. These need to be treated by a vet. Most chams in captivity are stressed because we cannot provide them with ideal conditions. In the wild they can select their own ideal temps, humidity, prey, etc. In captivity such parasites can have devastating effects. Page 104 of Necas' book has a picture showing how bad these infetations can get. You need a herp vet to treat this animal. Multiple treatments will likely be required. You need to protect your investment.
Ed

On the lighter side of your parasite problem, maybe the good
professor would recommend that you take your cham to a vet that
has a good animal psychologist. He can psychoanalyze your chameleon to see if he will adapt to captive conditions. As for
the parasites, maybe a safer alternative would be to crank up
some bluegrass music, thus causing the parasites to evacuate the
the host. Although both chameleons and parasites can't hear, the
vibrations should provoke a response. I guess that a professor
of psychology has many more hours of parasitology, than an a microbilogist that has been working with cold blooded animals and
parasites for several years,
and has developed over 50 formulations and several patents.
Chameleons are just part of my research.

Legendchan

Just for the record, my degree is in biopsychology, not clinical psychology.... a distinction of which you seem to unaware. Also, I studied parasitology in the army as part of preventive medicine training. I also did my post doc in biology with a fellow who was, among other things, a comparative pathologist, comparative endocrinologist, and population biologist. My post doc research dealt with endocrine responses to stress in a poikilotherm. In other words, I am not without experience in the study of stress x disease interactions.
Ed

Wow, you have been working with them for several years. Many here have been raising and breeding them over 10 years and don't claim to be experts. If you knew anything about chameleons you would know that one with a heavy parasite load In the wild Is different from one In a cage In a persons home.

Those who must use the "I have developed 50 formulations and several patents" response show a need for attention and maybe Epollak can help you in that area.
If Epollak only saying he disagreed with you caused you to snap maybe you need to seek medical help, Immediately.

Yes he should take it to a vet and get a diagnosis and the best treatment. Anyone with a little knowledge would know you can't treat a living creature without first seeing It and/or doing a fecal.
Riccio bought a wc chameleon and from his post doesn't know much about them. so there maybe areas lacking In his housing and care which could ad more stress to a wc with parasites leading to a early death. But I don't blame you for your response Legend(in your own mind)cham as your field of study doesn't involve much interaction with humans but with feces and what's in them.

You need to go back and read my posts again, before you jump
on the Pollack's Legend bashing bandwagon. He is very upset that
just maybe someone out there has more knowledge in the area of
parasites than he does. Thats o.k. though, if he wants to the
the God of the forum then let him, and you can be his groupie!
The only advise ever given on this forum is TAKE IT TO THE VET! People need to gain some knowledge on their chams and the afflictions that affect them. Obviously this forum is NOT about
gaining knowledge. Now I know why the academic community does not
respond to peoples questions on this forum.

Legendcham

>>You need to go back and read my posts again, before you jump
>>on the Pollack's Legend bashing bandwagon. He is very upset that
>>just maybe someone out there has more knowledge in the area of
>>parasites than he does. Thats o.k. though, if he wants to the
>>the God of the forum then let him, and you can be his groupie!
>>The only advise ever given on this forum is TAKE IT TO THE VET! People need to gain some knowledge on their chams and the afflictions that affect them. Obviously this forum is NOT about
>>gaining knowledge. Now I know why the academic community does not
>>respond to peoples questions on this forum.
>>
>>Legendcham

The issue here is neither you without seeing the animal in person, nor the eyes of an unqualified individual who obviously is not experienced with these parasites are capable of accurately judging the condition of the animal and the parasite infestation with any type of accuracy at all. Its the blind leading the blind and gaining knowledge is dispensing your blinders, in this case, by taking the animal to the vet to see first hand what this type of infestation requires to be dealt with and what is needed to accurately determine its severity. Any member of the academic community would understand that what you are recommending is irresponsible and blatantly not in the best interest of the animal or its caretaker/investor. I would say the reason more academics don't partake in these forums is due to the presence of egotistical individuals so set on their improper advice that they go about attacking legitimate information and those giving it out by criticizing their passions and profession or ultimately resorting to name calling.

Chris
-----
Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

If you were to CAREFULLY read my orginal post, I did not tell
rico not to take his cham to a vet! In fact he mentioned in his
original post that he had plans to take his w/c chameleon to the
vet. He was TRYING to get more info on the subject. Like I said
in the last post, gaining knowledge on this forum frowned upon.
You are right about one thing, it is the chameleons that suffer.
For the people that would like to learn more about parasites, there is a easy to understand book titled: Understanding Reptile
Parasites by Roger J Klingenberg D.V.M.

Legendcham

>>If you were to CAREFULLY read my orginal post, I did not tell
>>rico not to take his cham to a vet! In fact he mentioned in his
>>original post that he had plans to take his w/c chameleon to the
>>vet. He was TRYING to get more info on the subject. Like I said
>>in the last post, gaining knowledge on this forum frowned upon.
>>You are right about one thing, it is the chameleons that suffer.
>>For the people that would like to learn more about parasites, there is a easy to understand book titled: Understanding Reptile
>>Parasites by Roger J Klingenberg D.V.M.
>>
>>
>>Legendcham

Riccio asked if this was a condition that could eventually kill his panther if untreated, he made no indication that he was taking his animal to the vet as you claim he did. Kowledge is not frowned upon but the best interest of the animal is of utmost concern. This knowledge can be gained by the experience of working with the vet to remidy the situation and in doing so, the animal benefits by the direct attention to its needs and the keeper benefits by first had knowledge.
Chris
-----
Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

If you really cared about the wellfare of the chameleon species,
then you would not have the Parsonii species. There are very good
reasons why they are listed as Appendix 1 on CITES. The book that
I mentioned in the previous post, should help Ricco and others
make informed decisions with their vet, reguarding parasite
issues. Enough said.

Legendcham

>>If you really cared about the wellfare of the chameleon species,
>>then you would not have the Parsonii species. There are very good
>>reasons why they are listed as Appendix 1 on CITES. The book that
>>I mentioned in the previous post, should help Ricco and others
>>make informed decisions with their vet, reguarding parasite
>>issues. Enough said.
>>
>>Legendcham

Let me promote your knowledge for a bit, they aren't listed as Appendix 1 of CITES, they are Appendix 2 of CITES just like all other chameleons with the exception of B. perarmata (App. 1) and Rhampholeon sp. (not CITES listed). And as for my caring about "the chameleon species" (BTW, chameleons aren't a species, they are a Family, Chamaeleonidae) when you have the ability to make an arguement against my passion toward these animals other than spouting off wrong facts, I'll provide you a responce to your concerns. In the mean time, try to search the archives because this has been discussed already.
Chris
-----
Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

Correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked the Calumma
Parsonii was banned from exportation from Madagascar. There is no justification
for having Parsonii in captivity! The new government in Madagascar is working hard to preserve habitat for these chameleons.

Legendcham

>>Correct me if I am wrong, but last time I checked the Calumma
>>Parsonii was banned from exportation from Madagascar. There is no justification
>>for having Parsonii in captivity! The new government in Madagascar is working hard to preserve habitat for these chameleons.
>>
>>Legendcham

You are simply making statements without any basis in fact. How exactly have you come to the conclusion that there is no justification for having C. parsonii in captivity? In 1995, CITES made a recomendation to the parties that all Chamaeleo (now Calumma and Furcifer) sp. export from Madagascar, with the exception of C. pardalis, C. oustaleti, C. verrucosus and C. lateralis (now F. pardalis, F. oustaleti, F. verrucosus and F. lateralis), should be suspended pending studies of the effect of collection on their status in the wild. As of yet, studies to satisfy this have yet to be completed to the liking of CITES. My C. parsonii are CB and as a result, the export status of C. parsonii from Madagascar and any effort to protect natural habitat in Madagascar is irrelevant. Please stop making empty statements unless you have applicable facts to back them up.

Chris
-----
Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

When people hae no idea they come here and ask why is my chameleon not eating or my chameleon has a bump over it's eye what is it or my chameleon may have parasites what dose of med should i give it then yes i will say it everytime, see a vet.
Because a person gains some knowledge on chams. and afflications that affect them does that mean they can treat it, NO.
I could care less why the academic community does not post here. This is not an accademic forum it's a chameleon forum so it matters not.
If they contribute actual experience as opposed to santized lab work then they're opinions and ideas will be taken seriously. If they don't go on attack mode and bragging about what they claim to have done because someone says i disagree they will be listened to. Maybe you should stay in the lab along with them and continue your peace Prize worthy work with parasites if interaction with those here is too much for a academically minded person such as yourself..

>>On the lighter side of your parasite problem, maybe the good
>>professor would recommend that you take your cham to a vet that
>>has a good animal psychologist. He can psychoanalyze your chameleon to see if he will adapt to captive conditions. As for
>>the parasites, maybe a safer alternative would be to crank up
>>some bluegrass music, thus causing the parasites to evacuate the
>>the host. Although both chameleons and parasites can't hear, the
>>vibrations should provoke a response. I guess that a professor
>>of psychology has many more hours of parasitology, than an a microbilogist that has been working with cold blooded animals and
>>parasites for several years,
>>and has developed over 50 formulations and several patents.
>>Chameleons are just part of my research.
>>
>>Legendchan

Wow...I have to agree that anyone who needs to attempt starting a pissing contest to make his information seem acurate has more complexes than we could diagnose on a forum. Kind of analogous to the fact that when a chameleon has an obvious parasitic infestation, leaving the decission of severity to an unqualified individual (no offense to the original poster) is terrible advice and beyond that which can be accurately diagnosed on a forum without seeing the subject in person. I would have the vet take care of it. Even if its just a small parasite load, it can get worse and a small load should be less stressful to get rid of than a large one. Don't take the chance, err on the side of caution and get it taken care of before stress causes it to be worse than it already is.
Chris
-----
Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/

Wow, nothing like a good debate. This is very similar to a reef forum I belong to and I'm glad to see there are some very passionate and knowledgeable people here. I think I was able to sift through the relevant posts and pull some good info out, I do appreciate it. I am pretty new to the cham hobby, and have been trying to educate myself as best I can over the last few months. I did keep a veiled about fifteen years ago, and have been keeping reef tanks for the last few years. I have been learning from some of the online breeders, especially Chameleon Corral, as she is only about a half hour away from me, books, and forums.

I made this Ambilobe purchase online, thought I asked the important questions, but obviously I didn't ask everything I should have, and I'm just trying to figure out what the best course of action would be. I just wanted to make sure that this is a problem that a vet should see, and not some money making ploy, as I almost ran into with my Chinese Shar Pei's (which are a highly misunderstood and misdiagnosed breed by vets).

So again, I do appreciate it. Between the info given here, and from what I've been told by a few other people, I will be taking him to a knowledgeable vet.

Thanks, Chris

Chris please don't think this had anything to do with you.
As for the other posts, when someone offers a different view point and gets attacked well the calvery comes in lol.
Trying to sell oneself and their credentials it generally isn't taken very well especially with out proof of their hands on knowledge.

It may sound redundant but when it comes to chameleons and parasites the best course of action is to see a vet that specializes in reptiles just to know where you stand. Once you get ahead of the problem it gives your chameleon the best chance at survival.
I don't think reptiles make up a large part of a vets income so i wouldn't worry about being taken.

Lastly, good luck and this is a great place to learn as many have been here for quite some time. You'll notice those who haven't generally come off abrasive and know all there is about reptiles and then you no longer see them posting.

Joel