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what makes an arabesque an arabesque ?

what i mean how do you define it ? i have an albino that is very arabesque in my eyes , see with all the other morphs its obvious what you have but with this morph i dont quite understand it

tell me what you think if my pic works that is

YOU BETTER GET A FEW MORE OPINIONS BEFORE YOU CALL IT ANYTHING HERE ON THE BOA FORUM. THESE GUYS CAN BE VERY SERIOUS WHEN IT COMES TO THESE MADE UP NAMES....

What makes an Arabesque an Arabesque is not just the "look" of an arabesque with the connecting, chain like pattern but the fact that it is a proven co-dominant genetic trait. That means that when bred to a "normal" approximately half the litter will have the GENETICS and look of an arabesque while the remaining half will be normal in looks and GENETICS!! That means there is no such thing as het for arabesque. They either are arabesques or they're not. If you do not know the origin of your albino, you can prove it's genetics in the first breeding by breeding it to a normal and seeing if half the litter has the arabesque look. If that wasn't an albino, I would say an arabesque also has (in general) increased peppering, especially in the face as well. Here is a picture of one of our arabesques that is cleaner than most.

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ARABESQUE BOAS HAVE THOSE LITTLE SHORT TAILS? I SEE ONLY THREE OR FOUR TAIL BANDS ON MOST ALL OF THESE.

Founder of the arabesque boas. I just like the look and the genetic potential of them. Steve Hammond produced the first arabesque boas around 1990 or so and no one really understood the genetics of them at first. (myself included!!) Look how far we've come since then!! LOL
My real point is that it's the genetics of the arabesque boa not just the "look" that makes it an "Arabesque". To market something as an arabesque boa without knowing and proving the genetics would be a gross misrepresentation of a lot of hard work. If you didn't buy it from a reputable breeder as an arabesque along with it's proven genetics, then it's not an arabesque. I'm not saying anyone couldn't have an arabesque, but without proving it's co-dominant genetics, I certainly wouldn't think of it is an arabesque until it was proven genetically!! Here's one that's het for albino and not as clean as the first one I posted.

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im not about to call it anything more than an albino at this point as im 1 of those that cant stand all these people that call them a morph when they are not, my plans are to breed him to my female salmon next year

so should 50% of the babies still have the arabesque pattern if it is in fact an arabesque, and is it possible to have the arabesque pattern show up in the salmon

that would be an unreal animal an arabesque sunglow

thanx for your responses

you should have approximately half a litter of hypos het for albino and half a litter of normals het for albino. If half the litter also has that arabesque look, I would say your albino is also an arabesque. Jeremy Stone produced the first arabesque hypos as far as I know. Surprisingly, the hypo gene did not really alter or affect the arabesque gene unlike other pattern morphs that have been plugged into hypos. If your albino turned out to be an arabesque, you'd be well on your way to producing arabesque sunglows!! In cooperation with Pete Kahl, I'm hoping to produce some arabesque sunglows sometime in June!!! I'm also expecting a litter of albino arabesques bred to my favorite coral albino a little bit later.

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Boy Tom, your pictures are AMAZING!!!!! Is that female the Coral I produced? Or is that a different snake. If so, I HAVE to get some of those babies if she produces. (Even if it wasn't from my bloodline). Anyway, about the Salmon arabesque or Hypo arabesque. I have produced 2 litters 2 different years. Some of them came out very distinct, but others not soo much. Actually the Hypo gene does alter the arabesque pattern a bit. Some a lot and others not so much. The unique thing about the arabesque is the VERY thin saddles on them. THe salmon gene also makes some of the boas with VERY thin saddles so this is where it gets wierd. The head marking is very uniqe to the Arabesque, and all of the Hypo/Besques had that arabesque head on them, and that was the ONLY way I could tell that some were arabesque. So, I can imagine that we will run into some problems with some of the salmon arabesques down the road. Some people will think that they just look like normal hypos with the arabesque pattern, and some of them actually will. But there will be others in the litter that you can see have the gene for sure. I think the Sunglow arabesque will be a great Snake but a tough one too. Some might think they will just be Sunglows but the head should give it the NOD. I am also working on this project and hope to hit this Summer. Time will tell.

The MOST unique part about the Arabesque is the color transformation they have. As they approach adulthood they turn into a Beautiful Buckskin color such as the one that Tom pictured breeding his Albino female. As babies they are Silver, and they turn into a KILLER buckskin color that makes them unique. The great thing about the Salmon Arabesque is this color transformation at Sub adult hood. The Hypo Arabesques also go through a "Color Transformation". I have one that isn't that great looking of a Arabesque, but now as it is turning colors into its "BUCKSKIN" form, it is making the Hypo turn into a BURNT Orange color that is hard to describe and is VERY cool. Pete Kahl told me the same thing. He has Yearling Salmon arabesques too, and So does Tracy Barker. They both said they have gotten much better as they age and go through this color change. It makes it a lot of fun.

Everyone is asking WHY have we not bred Arabesque to Arabesque?? What is going on?? Well, there really aren't as many out there as people think. Even though they were first produced in the early 90's. There were a few years that none were produced. This year I think we should see the first ever ARABESQUE to ARABESQUE breeding. Quite a few attempts have been made, but none were successful in actually producing babies. (At least not to my knowledge) I can't wait to see if in Dominant form, it will take on a NEW look. Arabesques are a GREAT gene to work with. No two look the same, and there is a ton Of Variation just in the gene itself. Best of luck to everyone, and Bill, STOP hurting my eyes with those pictures!!!!!!! Take Care, Jeremy Stone

What barber are you & Pete going to!!!??? (I gotta avoid that guy,at all costs! *LOL*) just messing with you,of course! beautiful animal,thanks for posting!!!

Oh well, I guess Pete has this way of sweaying you to cut your hair for some unknown reason. I didn't even get a free snakie out of it like he has promised others in the past. LOL!!!!!!!

Hope things are going well for you Tim, give me a ring sometime. Jeremy

Some of the pictures from the first couple of N.R.B.E. meetings in Orlando,...Pete used to look like the lead singer for "Stryper"! *LOL*(err...actually he may HAVE been for a short time,the jury's still out on that one? and,Pete still doesn't have a suitable aliby for that "missing time"!???hmmm)Me,I'm keeping my hair until the forces of nature make me give it up!!!(probably sometime this week,with my luck! ) so you mean I can't send the pics to Reptiles Magazine???

in your post above you say

"The head marking is very uniqe to the Arabesque, and all of the Hypo/Besques had that arabesque head on them, and that was the ONLY way I could tell that some were arabesque. So, I can imagine that we will run into some problems with some of the salmon arabesques down the road."

As I was cleaning the boas and feeding them tonight I noticed one of my female hypo poss het ghosts has the "arabesque" head markings.

Now I KNOW SHE IS NOT A ARAB, however my question is this. If when breeding them to hypos the only way you can tell sometimes is the head marking, I think thats a recipe for disaster.

If I have one in 3 hypos with the marking, without the blood, then one could easily assume it would pop up randomly in other litters.

I also noticed a couple of my other boas have a far less defined "arabesque head pattern". I know that thats just one of the ways to identify them, but if its the most reliable in a hypo breeding I must admit thats not the most comforting thought.

Lastly, give me a call big guy.

Mickey Hinkle
The Lizard King Reptiles

Mickey,

I see your point, and Point well taken. It is really hard to explain, and again, I bet there are going to be some Hypo arabesque that are BOARDERLINE kind of like some of the Salmon Jungles we produced this year. Some of them were in that Middle zone where you can't exactly be sure. The only proof will be BReeding them out. There is also another way. The arabesques have a unique ladder tail. (The Majority). That tail shows up in a much more Yellow color on the salmon arabesques. It is hard to tell some of them apart. I'm sure you'll see a lot of variation in prices on some and the others because of that. I don't mean this to sound arrogant, but I can just tell by looking at the Hypo if it got that gene or not. Others may not. I have only produced 8, in 2 different years. I hope to produce more. My points were in that the Sunglow arabeque, I think there will be some that are hard to see the Arabesque in them. Maybe the color will be different as I have noticed my Albino arabesques have a different color to the Albinos.

If you are intending on buying them, just make sure you are getting a good guarantee from the breeder, and make sure the breeder is someone Reputable and will back up what he sells. I know this is not the greatest answer, but The Hypo gene is a very unique gene in the fact that it does alter pattern. It really jacked up the Motley. I think it is very cool and there are a ton of differnt looks, but I have yet to see a TRUE Motley pattern on a Salmon Motley. Again, I am breeding for more this year so hopefully I'll be able to see more of those too. I'll call you tomorrow. IT is LATE!!!! Night, Jeremy

If you're really not sure if either parent that produced it,was in fact,an Arabesque...breed it,if you get 50% Arabesques,and,the rest are normal in appearence...*bingo*...despite how some individuals may vary in pattern,all Arabesques I've ever seen,have a very distictive head pattern that makes them easy to identify from other dorsolaterally connective examples of B.c.i.

I have been told by breeders who work with Arabesques that a true Arabesque will have a circular patter on the top of their head. If you look at Tom's photos, you can clearly see it in the first two animals that he posts. I only can't really can't see it in the last photo of the male breeding that beautiful Albino because of the angle of his head in the photo...but I think it's there too...?

I've also heard that many of them have a ladder tail or partial ladder tail. Mine doesn't really have much of a ladder tail though...

Celia

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Celia Chien

Celia Chien Photography
My Snakes

www.ExoticsByNature.com
www.BallPythonMorphs.com
www.CornsnakeMorphs.com

All the ones I've seen,do have it. great looking animal & photos too btw.!!!

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Randall L Turner Jr.

You never experience life until you have kids..then you realize what you should have done rather then what you did do