Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys and gals about to get a Bearded Dragon from my friend that cant take care of him any more just wanted to know what kind of substrate should i use. I use tiles for my leos should i do the same route?

There are lots of different opinions and I'm sure you won't get the same answer twice.

Personally I think tile would be fine. No risks of impaction and easy to clean. I use shelf-liner for the same reasons.
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1.0.1 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

I use tiles for the bottom of my iguana cage, nice n easy to clean up, but I personally keep my bearded on wheat bran. He loves to burrow in it and dig around in it, I like the smell, and its very easy to spot clean every day. It costs me maybe $3cdn to put 4 inches in the bottom of his enclosure. The only thing about bran, is you have to take your lizard out for misting or it gets disgusting fast, and everything in the cage absolutely must be on the bottom, otherwise they can dig under things and get injured when they tip or fall.

I tried rabbit pellets, found the smell too over powering and not that easy to clean up, plus they moulded quite quickly. I did the paper thing for a while, but I have a fairly large setup with alot of objects in there, rocks, tree limbs, fake plants, so I find paper/shelf liner not practical for me, although it is an excellent choice. For beardie babies, I do like paper towel, as I have fewer objects in with them and they mess more often, it makes for a better substrate and I can see exactly whats going on with feeding and pooping!

thanks for all the info. If you could show me a pic of the weat bran i would be very happy cant understand how it looks please. 8). Did not understand that you have to give them a shower alot or it gets nasty?

Its the same bran you make muffins with, I buy it at the local bulk food store. Beardies like to be misted, and wheat bran will get sticky and gross if you don't take them out for misting. I keep water dishes up on rocks away from the bran, so it doesn't get gooey for them, its the one downfall of bran. Wish I had a photo for you, unfort my camera is dead at the moment, tho I'm sure someone could post one for you. Its kind of an off-white or reddish colour, and is quite light and fluffy.

You can also get wheat bran in bulk at your local feed and grain store....about 8 bucks a 50lb bag, so it's very economical as well....I've used it in several tanks for a year or so now....I also like the smell and the dragons like to dig and burrow in it.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

Be careful right under the spot bulb if you use tile or even a rock to bask on... dragons obviously need pretty high temps and sometimes the basking rocks or in this case the tile (not sure what kind you have) may absorb a lot of the heat and get extremely hot right under the basking spot which could cause problems. If you use it, just make sure you keep an eye out right under the bulb in case that type of tile absorbs heat well.

Congrats on your first dragon. Welcome to the world of dragons.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

Thanks alot man.

We tried bran out for about a month awhile back.. here is a picture of one of our dragons on it... we weren't real impressed with the bran.. ran into the same problems we did with sand... but this will give you an idea of what it looks like.

Sorry the picture isn't any better, it's the best I had of the wheat bran. We stopped using it.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

why you stop? thanks for the pic also 8).

Because we were not real impressed with it.

As with sand, when anyting wet or moist that comes into contact with it sticks immediately. This can cause problems when you offer wet veggies and/or greens. Bran/Sand tend to stick to greens very well especially when the dragon tromps all through it and therefore they can ingest quite a bit.. much more so then lets say crickets walking in it.

Sanitation was also a problem with it. Again, as with sand, it's very easy for parasites/bacteria to harbor and build up to large levels quite quickly especially in warm/hot dry areas like dragon cages. Just because you scoop up the obvious fecies doesn't mean you always get all of the "spoiled" area and again can build up quite fast.

Moisture is also a problem. We mist our dragons to give them fresh water instead of offering water bowls. When the dragons would get misted they would roll in the sand/bran and have it stick to them which can't be a good thing.

We use newspaper only now in our cages. It's cheap and effective for us to use due to our large collection. More importantly it's easy to clean. When a dragon goes to the bathroom we remove the entire sheet of newspaper and clean the infected/spoiled area, then replace with fresh newspaper.

We also like newspaper because there is a much better chance of no impaction either from direct consumption or from items sticking to the paper. We are able to put greens/veggies directly onto the paper (again cutting down on food bowls that build up with bacteria over time) and don't have to worry about things sticking to it. Same goes for misting for fresh water. The dragons also like the paper because they can hide underneath it and get away when they want to be left alone.

The biggest drawback to paper that you have to be concerned with are the crickets hiding underneath it. If they hide the dragons won't get enough to eat and at night when the lights go out the crix will come out and can bite/injury your dragon. Everynight we do a cage check and go through and remove all crix from every cage to eliminate this problem. It's time consuming at times, but it is necessary just to be safe.

sorry for the long post.
brandon
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Dragons by Nature

I agree and have found some of the same issues....certain of my dragons love it so well that those are the ones on the bran....but to combat the food issue.....I have a raised eating area with a lip to minimize food spillage.....I take mine out to mist them, so that's not an issue for me.....and the ones that have the bran are now adults, they poo in a certain area which is raised out of the bran and I use paper towels, newspaper or butchers paper there. I know some that just have a bran box for the dragons to play in as well.

Most of my dragons are now on shelf liner, though I often use newspaper or butcher paper as well for cleanliness sake in my larger collection as well.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

yea, if you can get your dragons to do that then that's a lot better. We just don't have the time between jobs and the dragons to take each one out to spray and all and everything else.. but a few of our dragons did love to play in it too. Some didn't like it at all because they couldn't get "a footing" in it.. but it does have advantages over paper for some things.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

I agree....my 4 tanks that have it are way more time consuming....those dragons though loved it so, I just couldn't take it all away from them....luckily they are fairly well potty trained and I managed to arrange the tanks so it would work at they are larger tanks....3 x 5 x 3....makes a difference if you have the space to make alterations.

I have never sprayed my dragons in the tank.....just habit I guess....would certainly be less time consuming to do it in.....we are creatures of habit though....lol....we get our routine and it's tough to break....though I just might try the misting of the ones in the tanks not on bran....and that's the majority of them.....us old folks are set in our ways...lol....but I'm willing to try it....surely would save a bit of time.
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

lol.. yea i hear you. Some of ours are really spoiled too. We have one that is so fat and lazy she waits to be handfed. 10 crix will be in her cage.. she waits for me to feel sorry for her and go get the crix and hand feed her and eats everyone. We're all suckers and they know it!

Yea, misting inside the cage works well as long as you don't saturate the inside and raise the humidity or anything. Another big problem is obviously you have to make sure the area where you spray is clean and try and avoid getting the water on areas that could have been soiled. If the cage is dirty it must be cleaned before spraying just in case they decide to drink off the floor that may have been contaminated. That's the biggest drawback that I've found.. but hey it helps make me keep the cages clean lol.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

Yep....I hear you on the soiled areas and the water......I will definitely keep that in mind.

Sometimes I feel I'm the pet and they are the owners as they certianly dictate to me what they need and want...lol.....

I wonder if they talk when we aren't there....."you see that....I got her wrapped....does anything I want..." lol....if we could only hear what they are thinking....
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Tracey
Tracey's Beardies
www.beardiecrazy.com

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Dragons by Nature

Yep, I agree with all of what you say, it is more time consuming and not always feasable, but for the couple that I have, it works for me I keep water up high, as well as food, and regularly turn the bedding. My guys come out for baths and misting, but I do have to make sure I put them up on branches to dry. In the 16 months or so I've been using it, I haven't had too many problems, but it did take a bit to get the hang of non-gooey lizards!! A good supply to large, flat rocks for feeding and watering helps too (friends are farmers, huge rock pile from stone picking).

Yup, right on.. if it's working for you that's great I don't hate the bran or anything.. just for the amount of dragons we have and our cage design we don't have those options to separate areas off like that and everything. But that's great it's working for you.

G'luck with your dragons n all.

brandon
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Dragons by Nature

np

Please see post link below from professionals reptile Authors, medical personnel and rehabilators

24/7 light
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www.reptilerooms.com

I tried the timer with lights on or off, I tried switching to small ceramic heat emitters at night, and last but best a 24/7 basking light set up. The advantages are great, the animals sleep without hiding their head, hiding their head, underground (with that option, should be available), under logs (another option), under rocks (another option), and also theres a Retes stack (they can choose temps at different set levels, hide, and its light and easy to build).
The results of lizards that can choose 24/7 to bask are great because they can set there own schedule, they can bask while we sleep, sleep while we are there, or whenever they want, they grow so much faster with as many options as possible.

Wow..your electricity bill must suck having those high wattage lights on all the time...

45 watts isnt much, plus you can always get another job if you cant afford those light bills. You can also use paper towels since its "much easier" for you and not necessarily better for your lizard.

The animals I have as well many monitor keepers all have a large enough space above and below ground (accept one of mine unfortunately) to allow them air (ambient) temps from 86-68f or some lower, with basking (surface) temps that are 130-188f. The reason for such a gradient and a high small surface temp (STV length or so) is to allow them the choice to use what temps, what humidity, and dark or light as they want or need it. I also use a flourescent light in each that basically provides ambient light on a timer for day light (when the cage is big it gets dark on one end). I give them hides on the surface that can hide their whole body and then some.
I use all 45 watt outdoor flood bulbs mounted from a range of 8-13 inches from a plywood basking site, or my ackie has a cork log for his.
This has been tried by many years and years ago on many many species, it is advantageous to animal and keeper in many ways because most animals eat, grow, and breed with less human contact. Now if your like me I handle all of my reptiles regularly, especially my huge blackthroat/whitethroat cross, sometimes she seems to think shes a human.
Everyone who has consistantly bred monitors has done so with 24/7 basking lights, deep digable substrate, etc.
Think about them, if you had to lay eggs and your choice was in a box with damp sand, or in a spot of soil thats deep enough to nest properly, is dry on the surface, is damp underneath, is the proper consistant temps for incubation, can be protected easily etc, which would you choose? After all its instinct to dig a hole in the proper conditions and lay them then hide them from predators. Its harder to find them because like my dragons (male and female) did they dug several places then buried them and flattened the entire cage to hide them, then stayed there to protect them. Its better for them to not be stressed when doing something that can kill them if stressed or if the conditions are not offered can kill them by eggs binding up and rotting. I went through this by using the wrong soil with my big Albig and it was too late to correct the substrate after shes looking for a nest, its too late. She had surgery at the 4 week point to remove infertile eggs (44 of them 5lbs worth), for her safety as she is my pet and a member of the family I had her ovaries removed, it was my fault (the wrong type of soil), and now its set right in every cage.

Well what I believe make the dragon happier is, sand, it's so inexspensive, and easy to clean I love it, go to lowes, or home depot $2.50 for a 50 pound bag if you have any other questions on what to feed it when to feed it, housing... etc, go ahead and ask.Thank you.

From:Brent Allen email leosrule182@yahoo.com AIM albinoleodotcom

I recently (a month ago) switched my two dragons to shelf liner and I LOVE it. It is really easy to spot clean. I used sand for the eight years I had my last dragon and I never had problems with it except is was a pain to keep clean. I never felt like it was really clean and I ended up changing the entire tank twice a month. So I had to lug 50 lb. sacks of sand around. Plus even when you sift it everyday you still have litle dried pieces of veggies in the sand which make it look dirty. The first thing my husband said when I changed the tanks to shelf liner was, "it looks so clean!" Just my two cents.
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Stacey