Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My second wild caught female just dropped 7 eggs today. The amazing thing is that her pre-lay weight was only 1456 grams. I was only expecting 4 or 5, but was shocked to find 7 normal sized eggs when I was able to "convince" her to hand them over. I candled best as I could (they had already adhered together), and I could see good veins in 5 of the eggs. The first WC female layed 9 eggs 2 weeks ago - her per-lay weight was around 1750 grams. So far 2 have gone bad, and it looks like another 2 are on their way. The remaining 5 all seem to have good veins when candled. I was just really surprised to see that many eggs come out of females that were not really that large.

Thanks,
Scott

It must be hell on their bodies to travel being gravid and all that. Doesn't give me a good feeling at all.

I agree with you, there are definately 2 sides to this coin, and there is part of me that is a little uncomfortable with the whole idea of exporting gravid females. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I really believe that there are far too many WC being exported, and at their relatively low reproductive rate, their numbers in the wild will be reflecting overcollection. (I am sure it is already).
I read a paper documenting the current practice of collecting gravid females over in Africa, collecting the eggs, and dumping all of the females back in one location. There was no conclusive evidence that these females were ever able to adapt to their new habitat, as hardly any were ever located again.
I obtained these females (2 of them) once they were already here in the US. I am hoping that the babies will be better off hatching here rather than being hatched at a facility in Africa, where they are packed in boxes by the hundreds and shipped abroad before their first shed, meal, etc. I also know that I will be providing the females who layed the eggs with medical care, not simply dumping them out in a habitat where they may not be surviving.
But, yes, I do see your point.

Thanks,
Scott

Also, that point about releasing all the females back into one location, that is soooo scary! Mixing of the localities is a no-no in biological circles, and is often more dangerous than exterminating an entire sub-population.

I wish there was an easy answer.

There is no good answer for this, there are multiple problems with the WC industry, which are not being looked at and solved... First being the treatment and transport of the animals... with the trappers trying to make as much money as possible and only making like 5 dollars a snake could you imagine how many you need to rip from their homes in order to make a living. Then there is the fact of transporting as many as you can in only little box over seas and with so many other animals that you couldn’t believe, its no wonder that most WC have parasites, could you imagine how the parasites would spread in travel, and i wish i could say that when they get here they always find wonderful homes with people who care for them but lets admit it, not everyone who owns an animal does it for the right reasons or takes good care of the animals that they purchase. Ahhhh it makes me so sad to hear about WC animals but i hope that your new WC mommies do well...And I’m sure that they have a wonderful home now with you.... Sigh the whole thing just makes me sad... take care of those little babies, they are the future...

Sincerely,
Rose Hipskind
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www.srsnakes.com

Lets tell these guys who get PAID less than 5.00 a snake that they can no longer catch snakes and sell them. or any other reptile/brd, etc anymore.
So what is the next BEST alternative to this for them? Well if the savannah/jungle/habitat has no monetary value lets slash and burn, cut, demolish and go to agriculture. Then were do the animals go>?
Ever think about it that way?
You as a government have to protect your peoples interests. You cannot tell them to not grow food to make money or farm cattle to make money, you can also not tell them not to sell snakes. You can regulate it though by limiting number of ball pythons allowed out, you can also regulate agriculture but to produce what 100 acres of ball pythons produce monetarily youll have to slash burn, etc about 3 acres. OR MORE.
Veggies are even cheaper than ball pythons by A WHOLE LOT....
Now the question is the following:
Would you rather them not import ANY snakes and have the snakes homes destroyed destroying the snakes within a year or two or would you like snakes let out to sustain the money these people need to MAKE A LIVING and save the habitat that is not only home to the ball python but to thousands of other species as well??

Another thing is there is a regulatory organization that says how anything needs to be shipped.
There can only be 6-10 ball pythons per bag with ample room to allow two wide fingers to be between bags. Also if all ball pythons no other animal can be placed in box unless there are dividing floors, and many many more rules.

So please inform yourself better about what REALLY goes on then to what you MAY have heard about which happened a minimum of over ten years ago.

Mike
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"

And I don't think anyone should apologize for thinking of the well-being of the animals we love. Not at all.

And instead of catching 600,000 Ball Pythons at $1 each, why not collect 100,000 Ball Pythons at $6 each? Then African people still get to eat or do whatever it is they need to do, and only 1/6 of the Balls get tortured, and things stay equal. Well, that is, everything but the end consumer's wallet.

I am not wanting to start an argument here, but in my defense I am basing what I have written on a paper published by the relevant African goverment regarding an ongoing study of ball python collecting practices. My statement regarding the collection practices is not based on what I 'think I have heard', but rather on what I assumed was an accurate source, that source being a study by the African government. Regarding the shipping practices - Not having actually imported any ball pythons from Africa directly, I admit that the shipping conditions I mention are from accounts of others who have had this experience, not my own. Therefore, if you feel that the conditions in which the juvenile pythons are acceptable, I am not in a position to dispute you.
Again, I am not trying to start an argument, just simply wanted to reply to the statement basically questioning the integrity of the information contained in my post.

Thanks,
Scott

I believe that our current efforts in production of the ball python (especially morphs) will ultimately result in a dramatic reduction in demand for wild caught ball pythons and fewer animals harvested from wild populations.

After all the stress I cannot imagine these snakes feeding on there own.

This is what I would worry about more then anything. Sure the babies may do well. But what about MOM?

Ok guys here is the REAL dela from first hand accounts with people LIVING THERE and people who visit during the season to gey morphs.
The wc gravid females are picked up by the GOVERNMENT and distributed in locations where trapping for a second time is not likely to occur again. Remember all these snakes are collected within a 50-100 mile radius.
It is estimated that with the amount fo abll pythons per hectare that over 7 million are born EACH YEAR.....we only import around the world about 500,000 give or take a few
Females that lay their eggs inc aptivity are picked up by government, released and never seen again , probably because NO ONE HUNTS THERE.
Or because the balls got smarter for recollection if they were bieng collected.
They may hide better find more seclduded spots, etc

Also remember why would a female not do good after re release when wc gravids almost always eat here after they drop their eggs?

In theri natural temps, climates, surroundings in terms of landscape, etc, you dont think if a jerboa crosses them they wont eat it and starve themselves? I dont think so.

Always remember yes baby balls are shipped before feeding, shed, etc...its FOR THE BETTER,
i dont think you would want to drink the water and since no mice breeders in mass quantity be fed pieces of meat? ior what are they going to eat? the rodents that are the balls food are exported as pets as well! so why would they feed tens of thousands of baby balls there? when they will be jsut as fine comign here before a drink and shed to get CLEAN sanitary water and nice fat little mice?

Explain a way around it in either direction, there is none
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"Quality isn't Quality without customer service so I guess I sell quality"