Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've never had a snake, but my daughter wants to get one, but I'm having quite a hard time bringing myself to get one for the simple reason that I just don't get it. Please don't come down on me, that's not what I'm lookin' for, just need some input, some understanding. I see alot of pics of these huge snakes in little enclosures, ones where that can't even stretch out nevermind move about. I've read quite a bit about them, and from my understanding, in the wild they actually put on quite a few miles, no? Sweater boxes?? Aren't they for sweaters? I also see alot of once venemous snakes, and that I just don't get? Could someone please tell me what the reasonong is behind making them non-venomous? And yes, I know the obvious answer to that, but I just don't see the reasoning behind mutilating such a beautiful creature just for the sake of "owning" one, for the owners protection - were they not provided with such a defense mechanism for reasons? And I see ALOT of pics with people holding these snake surrounded by all their friends with this "hey hey, look at me, aren't I cool?!" look on their face, and I'm concerned that these people are getting these snakes just for that reason - to "look tough and cool".
Actually, we were in a petstore the other day, and the girl says "these California Kings, make a great pet for kids...they're totally non-aggresive (which she continuously emphasized), can be housed together (in their 15 gallon was 3 of them about a foot long), easy to handle and a breeze to care for"....okaaaay....then tell me why I stood there watching 2 of them fight brutally? I told her a few times, and after blood was drawn and one looked dead, she finally removed it....it died. Then the other turned and went on the other one in there. It was sad. So, are they non-aggresive? Should they be housed together? It just fills my head with more concerns.
I'm sure some people are wanting to tell me that a snake is obviously not the pet for me, and so be it, it probably isn't, but I'm hoping someone can tell me why a snake is the pet for anyone. I can totally understand having the smaller species, but I just don't understand owning this massive 7 foot snake. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, and I DON'T want to piss anyone off, I'm just trying to understand, and hopefully someone can tell me why they are housed in tiny little enclosures (and yes, I know not everyone has there's in a tiny one). Any input would be HUGELY appreciated.

You know an awful lot about the snake hobby for someone who just is thinking about getting one. You should be focusing on beginner snakes and not worry about the dangerous ones.

The chick at the petstore was very wrong about kingsnakes. They shouldn't be housed together. Don't blame us for her ignorance. You'll find more bad advice at petstores than good advice. I also wouldn't categorize all cal kings as tame, although many of them are.

Having an animal in an enclosure that is too small for it is also wrong. So don't do it. You can't help everyone who keeps snakes in enclosures are too small. However, sweaterboxes make wonderful enclosures for many types of snakes, mostly because they keep humidity in very well and are also nice and private. Snakes don't care about seeing the scenery outside their tanks.

There is nothing on the planet like a venomous snake. You just either understand this or you don't. Many people here keep completely unaltered hots.

I also wouldn't call a seven foot snake gigantic . Especially the skinnier ones. Seven feet is a good size for a lap snake.

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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

Who said I was blaming anyone for that chick's ignorance? That's not the case at all. And as for "knowing an aweful lot when I was JUST THINKING about getting one"...do you not agree that it's good to know everything possible before aquiring a snake? I certainly do. And like I said before, I am not trying to bash anyone, and as for "getting it or not getting it" when it comes to venemous snakes...that is exactly why I asked. I'm not judging or saying it's a bad idea, not at all, I think they are absolutely beautiful and can completely see why people are interested in them. I am just asking.
And I guess it just upsets me when I see an animal being mistreated...NOT SAYING EVERYONE WHO OWNS A SNAKE IS MISTREATING THEM...can you honestly tell me that it is appropriate to house a big snake in an enclosure in which it cannot move about? Or to know nothing about them and just go out and buy one so you'll "look cool"?
And yeah, you're right, 7 feet is not gigantic, but it is when you see it stuck in a tiny little enclosure. Clearly I have a hangup about this lol!
Who knows if snakes could care less what their home looks like? Most animals get stressed when in environments that are not at the least somewhat similar to their natural environments, so would snakes not be the same? JUST A QUESTION, not an accusation.

I agree you shouldn't keep snakes in enclosures that are too small. Sweaterboxes aren't too small for some people. (I call them people because it's shorter than 'various squamates')
I also know they can get pretty stressed by seeing people walk by their tanks, and that they don't give a whit about being able to see outside of them. I know this because I have a bunch of them and I know the signs of them displaying stress.
Your post sounds very combative even though you say that's not your intention. But you'll learn more if you tone it down a bit and ask nicely, and concentrate on learning about beginner snakes if you want one and leaving the other issues to tackle until later. Asking about venomous snakes and big pythons is like asking about tigers when you want to get a housecat.

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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

Thanks Yes, I know I can sound combative lol, I guess I just prepare my defenses before sometimes necessary, lol. I've just read alot of posts where people tend to get rude when it's totally unnecessary, and was just expecting it. Very true about the housecat to tiger lol!
I promise to ask nicely
By the way, what kind of dog is that? It's gorgeous.

I haven't read the whole thread so forgive me if I'm redundant. (I've been called worse)

You have pointed out one of the worst aspects of this hobby. It's something I'd like to call...

HOW OTHERS SEE US
(and why)

1. People who own snakes just do it to look cool or seem weird.
Why? Because some people do. Consequently, in order to look cool and seem weird to the largest amount of people, they make themselves very public. Conversely the respectably hobbyist is usually not seen strolling through downtown with an alligator on a leash.

2. People who own snakes are irresponsible with their deadly, man-eating animals. You always read about how someguy got killed by his giant boa python rattler.
why? Because people who own snakes that are responsible, don't get eaten by them and therefore, it doesn't make the news.

3. People who own snakes have tatoos, dyed hair, and piercings.
Why? Because these are all items that are designed to make you look cool or seem weird. Sometimes a snake is the obvious next accessory. These people then, in turn, make themselves very public so that everyone sees that they have snakes and tatoos and probably tatoos of snakes.

4. People who own snakes are selfish and are not taking the snakes natural needs into account when housing their so-called pets.
Why? Because the people who are making this observation do not fully understand the life history of snakes. Allow me to explain:
Snakes like to remain hidden all the time in a small, dark, tight area. The only times they will even consider leaving this perfect retreat, is if they need one of eight things. Heat, less heat, water, food, sex, suitable site for hibernation, a suitable site for egg-laying or birthing and humidity. Since these things are readily provided for in captivity, it can be assumed that they are content in a small enclosure. However, since we cannot give the snake everything it wants at all times, sometimes their activity level increases and they roam about the enclosure. For this reason, the enclosure must be large enough for them to freely move about. A snake doesn't need to stretch out. In fact this is something they would rarely do even if offered the oppurtunity. Some species are more active than others and therefore need larger cages.

As far as the snake becoming stressed when outside of it's natural habitat, this is true for some. Most, on the other hand, adapt quite readily. They probably don't have the mental processes available to think "Jeez, I can totally tell this sweater box isn't a real snake den." I contend there is nothing better than a sweater box for keeping captive snakes. It is simple to make it completely sterile and snakes feel secure and are not bothered by movement outside the enclosure.
You see, when I walk in to my snake room, and all the tubs look empty, I consider that a good thing. My motto is "A hidden snake is a happy snake." If I see one roaming the tub and looking for a way out, I assume that it needs something. Usually food which, for it's own good, I can't always provide. But sometimes it's a good sign to upgrade the size.

Feel free to ask lots of questions. You came to the right place. Very few of us have any piercings at all. lol

DISCLAIMER: I have nothing against people with piercings, tatoos, and/or dyed hair. Just the one walking a gator downtown.

Most of what I said only applies to North American colubrids. I know.
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Martin Whalin
My Email

Quotes from guys named Carl:

"Science stops at the frontier of logic. Nature does not, she thrives on ground as yet untrodden by theory."
-Carl Jung

"It is foolish to let singleness of purpose deprive one of the joy and delectation of the many wonderful sights and sounds incidental to the quest."
-Carl Kauffeld

Hello and welcome to the world of snakes. I can tell you I got into snakes because I wanted a different kind of pet other then dog, cats, fish. I didn't get my snakes just to "look cool" holding them. I think they make wonderful pets. You have to know what your getting into and how to take care of the snake you want BEFORE you get one. I don't get why some folks house theirs in sweater boxes either. Why do some people get dogs and keep them outside??
For me snakes are just fascinating and amazing to watch and hold. I have 4...one is a jungle carpet python, 2 corns and a honduran milk.
That person at the petstore was wrong about housing kings together. They will eat each other but that doesn't make them aggressive to people. Most snakes will become docile with gentle frequent handling.
My thoughts are if your daughter wants a nice, gentle snake get a corn snake. They stay on the small side, 3-4 feet and are gentle, rarely biting.
I do hope you looking into the keeping of snakes more and ask around, talk to people you know who might own one. And if their is a reptile show/expo in your area Go. You can talk to alot of people who own and sell them. It's really up to you though if you REALLY want to get one DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST. :0)

I keep several species of reptile. I think snakes are facinating animals (like all animals), and they are easy to care for. I prefer small snakes because they are easier to handle and require less space. Cost less to feed, too. How old is your daughter? And what is her reason for wanting a snake? You will find a lot of information here, and you can check out some books at your local library. Beware of pet stores. Not all of them know what they are doing and are only in business to make a profit.

Linny

My daughter is 8, and looooves all animals, she is awesome with the pets we have. She actually held her first snake at an educational program. She thinks Corns are "really pretty" lol, and likes that they don't get too big. She reads alot about them and is trying to learn as much as possible, as am I, and we try to find people who own them so she can experience them first hand, but unfortunaly we live in an area where snakes are not too popular.
And yeah, petstores (not ALL) tend to be a problem, we've had many bad experiences.
This is an awesome website, it's helped us out sooooo much. We've seen some pretty crappy ones lol.

You asked why anyone would want a snake.. well why would any one want a cat or a dog, I got my first snake because I could not have a cat or a dog where I lived and I missed my cat. A friend had snakes and showed me how "cool" they were and the colors they come in are too many to name.

As for keeping them in sweater boxes I keep mine in them more due to the fact that I don't have the room yet to house them all (6) in 50 gal tanks. Cost is also a big issue for nice vision cages that are large can run into the thousands.

Yes some day I will have my dream wall of built in cages. Snakes that are captive bred are not as active as wild animals they don't have to hunt down their food. Is you dog/cat as active as a wild wolf (exect labs and border collies they go into a way diffent group)?

As for keeping hots that have been altered I really find this wrong. I don't keep hots because I can't do it safely. I feel keeping hots is up to you as a person. It has "a cool factor" just like a person keeping lions and tigers.

hope this helps you want to keep snakes they are a graet joy lots of and always conversation starter and what other animal can you feed only once a week to once a month

Actually, I didn't ask why anyone would want a snake, I can completely understand why someone would want a snake. Hopefully, with enough knowledge and understanding, I would like to have one for sure. My post was just regarding those who keep them in sad conditions and neglect their snake, and I was also hoping for some input from responsible owners regarding care and whatnot and yes, what attracts them to snakes. Sorry if I came off wrong, I did that post after looking through the gallery and seeing pics that really ticked me off. I guess my "questions" (accusatons, if you prefer) were aimed at those who have them in unappropriate conditions, neglect them, and have them just to "look cool". But thanks for your post, I was hoping for some input as to what attracts people to them, and some advice, etc. Thanks

Pinky,

This is an awesome site, and there are many experts who frequently add ther expertise to anyone asking.

My daughter wanted a snake after having one in school (a corn). I did keep a snake or two when I was a kid, so I kinda knew what I was getting into. We researched together and made it our own little project, having alot of fun debating the pros and cons of each type. We settled on a Cal King, and made extensive use of this forum in the process. I got a little spotted variety from an online dealer, shipped to my workplace in less than 24 hours. We've been keeping her in a 15 gallon aquarium setup since October. At this stage she has plenty of room and loves having a substrate that she can burrow in and spends most of the time in one of her hides. She is very tame, and still occasionally poops or pees when I first pick her up, but she has never even hinted at striking me (except one time when I didnt know she was in shed, they get very definsive). Although it is scary to think of them biting you they can hardly do anything to you at this stage, and its almost funny.

As to the reasons...............they are just very interesting and are fun to watch and hold. I certainly dont have it to look cool, though those that I see striking that pose bother me too !!! My daughter is 13, so I have no issues with her taking care of the snake, though I find myself doing most of the cleaning and maintainence !! We have had a lot of fun, but I have always liked snakes since I was a kid, and learned much about them then. I agree they are not for everyone, and there are no guarantees with them, they are wild creatures and are run by instinct and the reptilian brain. Do your best to reaearch, like you are doing and then decide !! Maybe she would do better with a hamster !!! Maybe you would too !!!

Cheers

Thanks, very informative....may I ask why you feel a hamster would be better for us??? We have one actually, and he is quite happy. Along with numerous other healthy, happy pets.

I didn't mean to pick on the Hamster as a species or you at all, I was just reflecting what others have said on this site, that snakes are not for everyone and each person should research to find out what particular pet best suits their wants and needs. My wife for example has no problems with our snake, but she absolutely would not allow anything in the rodent family !!! Thats just the way it is with her. That is what I meant by the comment.......maybe you and your daughter are more Hamster/Rabbit/Dog/Cat people, but not necessarily snake people......thats all.

On another note, its refreshing to see someone actually doing the research instead of just getting one, later to find they don't want it and end up with a neglected or released into the wild snake. I'm sure the responsible snake owners on this site applaud your questioning attitude as well !!

Take care.

I think all snakes should be housed seperately especially kingsnakes and milk snakes. A lot of the kids they get to work in pet stores don't know the needs of the different animals.
I like to have a cage a little longer than the snake at the very minimum.Buddy Grout. By the way California king snakes make great pets.

Your post was interesting and thoughtful, and so were the answers that you have gotten so far. If your daughter is interested in corns, they are an excellent place to start.
They are inexpensive, usually docile or at least easy to tame,
very easy to care for, and readily available as captive-bred animals. They do not require much space, and should therefore be easy to provide with all the room that they need and all the room that will make YOU comfortable that you are not cramming them into tiny sweater boxes. Speaking of which...plastic totes in general are not a bad idea. I got a bunch of 50 gallon ones at Wal*Mart for 10 bucks each. VERY roomy for my snakes, and cheap, too.
I agree that a reptile show would be a great experience for you and your daughter. Click on the EVENTS at the top of the page, and find out if there is one near you. Or let us know what city you are near, and someone may be able to fill you in.
Snakes do, indeed, make very interesting pets. They are extremely easy to care for (especially the ones that make good "beginner" snakes, like the corns and other North American Ratsnakes).
Welcome to the forum. Duffy

Thanks Duffy Unfortunatly we live in a place where you'd never see an expo, so travel would be in order. And what really sucks, is the lack of resources (THANK GOD FOR THE NET! lol) here. I would like it if she, and I, could have some more actual hands on experience, but here (in Prince George BC) that's highly unlikely. Any suggestions? We are definitely looking into the expos, and would love to go.