Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been a herper most of my life and have kept mostly large snakes. I have recently just bought a new house and have a perfect place to set up a 40 gallon long vivarium. I was thinking about just having it be a fish tank but now I think it is time for me to try something new.

I have kept red-eyed tree frogs in the past with much sucess and think darts would be fairly easy for me to manage. My question is with the type of vivarium I am looking at building should I go with darts or mantellas, and if so what kinds would you reccomend? I am looking for a species on the less expensive side as well as moderatly easy to take care of.

My ideas for tank set up:
1) I am thinking about using a few inches of gravel as the bottom substrate so I will be able to make a shallow pond of 1-2 inches of water.
2) I also am thinking of using a small pump to make a stream run through the middle.
3) I would like to have moss carpeting most of the tank with some vegitation but not tons. I'm looking for more of a swamp feel then the rainforset bromeliad back drop.
4) Heating of the tank im not positive for what I want to do yet. I could use either a light or under tank heater. What would you prefer?
5) I am thinking about using a substrate mixture that I read about in a 2001 Reptiles magazine article in the Living vivarium section about vivariums for mantells. I don't have the magazine with me but if I recall corectly they called for CoCo bedding, a little bit of sand, and some partially decomposed leaves. Would you use this or has anything different worked really well for you?

I have not purchased anything for my tank yet and want to plan everything before I dive head first into this project. I really want to get some sort of dart or mantella that could thrive happily in a set-up similar to my ideas. Please post any feed back that you could share.

Jay

Welcome to darts. Do a search in the archives under false bottoms to get a lot of information and photos on building the drainage section. Some members have some good instructional web sites, as well.

My only comment would be about the undertank heaters, due to a recent problem with using them under the tank, even with a spacer. I recently moved an auratus tank and discovered the surface under the heater was hotter than blazes-- enough to scorch the underlying stand. This never overheated the drainage layer, soil or the tank itself. My other vivariums all have the undertank heater on the back side behind the cork bark or other background layer rather than underneath, and this works well. You may not need a heater at all if you keep your house above 68 degrees in winter. In one large 135 gallon paludarium I have with a combination of tropical fish aquarium/vivarium, the water heater for the aquarium section and the circulating water do an excellent job of keeping the vivarium section at the right temperatures. If you do a false bottom set up, you could heat the water for your stream features and this would do the job.

I've never tried Mantellas, but there are so many favorite darts, it's hard to judge. The Dendrobates leucomelas would enjoy a tank such as you propose. They utilize all areas, from the ground and shallow waterways to the upper regions with the bromeliads. They don't seem to fight as much as tincs. Some auratus can be shy, especially the blue morphs, in my experience. Galactonotus are great bold frogs, and actually seem to breed better in relatively large groups. You could put in about 6 in a 40 gallon and get a good chance of having at least one of the opposite sex.

If you prefer the thumnails, which most will stay in the upper bromeliads most of the time, the imitators or ventrimaculatus are hardy and fun, especially if you have both sexes. I'd avoid the pumilios until you have some experience. They seem to be more shy and territorial than the others, and it's hell to lose any frog, let alone a very expensive one. I've heard the terribilis are great, easy frogs. They are next on my own list. The mint form is affordable and easy to find.

Here's a picture of my galacs, just for fun.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending

Thanks for the post I most appreciate your time. Im really starting to get excited about this new project. I can't wait to start on it. Thanks again.

Jay

hello, I have also recently became interested in the poison frogs,
and have been researching about them, I found some nice sites where I learned alot about them...saurian.net,aaronsfrogfarm.com,doylesdartden.com,

And theres pictures and great info on how to set up a vavarium with waterfall somewhere on there site, blackjungle.com,

I found some great small pumps and stuff in the Dr.Foster& Smith fish catalog, they are also online.

good luck!
Link

I like the Rio pumps the best, because they are the simplest to take apart and clean. Some of the others are sealed so that you can't clean them properly when they get clogged. I use Rio 90 to 600 on different tanks, depending upon how much water I'm circulating and how high I need to pump it. I've gotten them from various sources, but recently have used Greystone, because it is a convenient on-line source.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
3 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
4 D. leukomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus pending