Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Webster's Dictionary Thesaurus (New Revised, 2001)

speculate (SYN.) assume, deduce, surmise, apprehend, imagine, consider, view, think, guess, suppose, conjecture. (Ant.) prove, demonstrate, conclude.

theory (SYN.) doctrine, guess, presupposition, postulate, assumption, hypothesis, SPECULATION. (ANT.) practice, verify, fact, proof.

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Andrew

Cool huh?

As used, theory has a mindfull, reasonable, chance of working. Like, several parts of a theory may be verified, as a whole untested.

In theory wild monitors are non-social. There indeed is evidence of that. In practice, they are social, there is lots of evidence of that. Yes, there are knowns and unknowns, so theory is used.

In captivity, social monitors have proven to be successful. So here in captivity, its of benefit for them to be social. Its not a theory, its been tested over and over. Again, in theory this should relate to nature, I believe it does, others believe it doesn't, so in that case, its theory.

Your use of the unknown as theory is misplaced, you spectulate about which you do not know. Your simply guessing, mostly from what others have done. Hmmmmmmm dangerous territory.

I actually thought you were learning, then you scared me. Your ignorance of how monitors cover their nests sarced me. Anyone who has bred monitors quickly learns how they cover their nests.

Cheers FR

yes, i have seen what wild nests look like. they are covered. my pilbaras still do not have ideal nesting, just better than what i have used in the past.

speculation and theory are the same things by definition, look it up.

andrew

Just when i think you have learned something, only cause you spat out that your doing this breeding this, etc. You ask some crazy question.

I mean who else would say hey just got this reptile, had it for a day it is the bomb. the best everyone needs them. It is now been a few days and they are breeding, I will have egg's soon I am sure.

PS. what do monitors eat??

I mean come on you don't say exactly that but it sure is close enough.

Now as for Speculation and Theory. They are not the samething when in use. They are applied differently. To speculate is simply a guess nothing more it doesn't even have to be tried, tested. You just have to think it and thats it. Now Theory on the other hand is practiced, tested, so you have to do more then just think it up out of mid air.

it is true, and i was being silly. it was fun.

i was kind of freaking out about the pil eggs, it would be a shame to lose some if she laid right?

you guys are pretty funny, you pick apart a post I put on another forum and go at it for days.

if you guys had a very expensive monitor that it is not prone to burrowing, go down but not cover the top you would be wondering too.

oh well,

i am hanging out with oscar right now, we are having fun taking some pics and we both got a good laugh at how you guys tear apart everything.

andrew

np

I, too, was blown away by this post:

http://www.varanus.net/cgi-bin/eboard30/index2.cgi?frames=no&board=Main&mode=Current&message=7862

Being ignorant is fine, but to brag (as you do, endlessly) of your 'success' while still being that ignorant is, well, embarrassing. Who said anything about wild nests? With all of that success with captives you keep telling us about, shouldn't you know whether or not captive monitors backfill their nests?

Take internet advice with a grain of salt. Because we are anonymous, we can pretend to be anything we want. Usually a person's true colors are revealed over time.

Your simply babbling about things you do not know of. Kinda, like a parrot. You quote me, mostly poorly and out of context, as well as your hero of the week(s). The best in the world, the weekly meetings, hahahahahahahahaha, problem is, its about YOU. If your the one giving advice, then your the one who is suppose to OWN the knowledge. If your heros are so good, you should refer people to them for advice.

I get the feeling, no matter what level of experience you have, you will still try to act several levels above what you actually are. Is that theory or spectulation. What if I bet on it?

To learn, you must have experience. Like doing something over and over. Doing something, once or twice and moving on is copying. Not really understanding.

With an understanding, you could then quote other people, but you don't have an understanding YET. Stop quoting me. Lets see how well you stand on your own two feet.

Spectulation and theory are not the same, if you use them the same, then that explains lots about you. Theory needs good reason to be. Spectulation only needs hope. I hope you will actually speak within your experience, My theory is, you will not. I could also spectulate you will not, would that be theory?, as your past history indicates you will not, so its actually not theory or spectulation, simply your behavior. Its been proven. Good luck FR

P.S. I don't quote you.

So much argueing and finger pointing. It seems a number of you are out for Varanus man of the year award, or the chest to pin it on. These are just monitors, not noble prize winning achivements. This isn't rocket science either, so much " my theorem supercedes yours", given the proper conditions which do vary, one will have sucess. It's too bad some can't leave their komodo sized ego's where they belong. This forum would be a lot more informative and benifical. Here's an idea, if you have all the answers write a book on it, hell I'd probably buy it. Instead
we get answers like "no your wrong" without providing any clarity. I'm not tring to pick any fights, I'm just here to expand my understanding, as I'm sure many others are as well. Lately most of what I've been reading has been a waste of time. If any take offense of this, maybe you should read the last couple of weeks worth of posts. Its really sad we can't share in others sucess, it seems far more likly that some will revel in others failures, what a pittiful state of mind. Clint

Its about people talking alot of BS without any backing up of their found knowledge giving advice for the sake of giving it whether the advice is right or wrong or slightly mis directed. I dont like to give advice because I have no reason to I am just starting out and I have kept monitors for 5 years and before that I kept agamids. But I do comment on these types of threads because I can smell BS from a mile away.

Hope this can clarify. We are out here to help eachother, but some people are not and those people need to be addressed when the speak out of their other hole.

How do you know the advice that someone else gives out is wrong? Where is your knowledge coming from that you can say someone else is wrong?

I don't think that you can be the one who 'smells the bs', or anyone for that matter. Because often things we think are correct, and that we've been told by others, are not actually factual. This is with respect to anyone on the forum. Now not to say that stating, "I think perhaps you've misspoken" or "could you confirm this.." is out of line, I think perhaps that its more conducive of a positive effect than, "You're wrong" and "you speak out of another hole."

Personally I think people can decide which information they'd like to assimilate and use. If someone were to ask, whats the best monitor(which they do ask), and whats the best substrate. Theoretically you'd get a different answer from every single person who chose to answer the question, in practice, now alot of us might say dirt, but when the question is delved more deeply, how many would say the depth of dirt, the same kind of dirt, cleaning time frame for the dirt, and the same watering schedule for the dirt. Unless we were parroting back what someone told us to say we would say a myriad of different answers.

Thats the beauty of the forum, you get input from so many different people that you can take the information, your own research, your own thoughts, and find a workable solution to any quandry you have, or better yet, simply learn about critters.

O

You should read the last five or six, seven, eight years worth, it surely has not changed.

How it effects you is, during this whole time, there is ALWAYS, and I mean always, somebody that pops up, wanting/claiming to be the word I use alot, "experienced". The problem is, they are not. Yet, they give advice about everything. Sometimes they give good advice, sometimes they do not. Pick one Clint. But they surely come off as they know what they are doing.

This fella has done that from day one. There really is nothing wrong with him, hes doing/going thru, what all those with experience have done/gone thru. Except, he cannot wait until hes actually gone thru it. Will he actually do this long enough to give good advice, who knows, most do not. I hope he does.

Yes, your right, this is not a very good place to learn about monitors. It really is not suppose to be. It suppose to be a place to talk about monitors.

For instance, I have lots of experience with monitors, yet, rarely do I get to talk about them. The reason is, I am always grilled for information. Please understand, I am not grilling myself. I also try not to give details, I give concepts, as its all about concepts. But I guess I am silly. Oh well, I wish you luck, if your going to take any of this to heart, your going to need luck.

You do know we have a monitor site, where none and I mean none of this people stuff is allowed. Actually without it, its kinda boring. hahahahahahahahaha FR

that was a real post.

and i did take it to heart. seriously.

andrew

Where might this site be located?? Frank it's a matter of perspective, you have crossed many bridges, you come to talk about them. In some ways your adventures are over. I and many like me come to learn, as the adventure is just begining. I expect to read about diagreements, but alot of times it gets way outa hand, this means of communication could be so much more than it is. I'm not offended or upset either, just trying to get some to think about their motives. Damn, if some want a soap opera let them watch one, people feel better when they come away with helpful data, vs. hurtful putdowns. I just see alot of pettiness. If you know of a more professional forum I'd be more than happy to check it out. Thanx, Clint.

varanus.net.

Also, your responce is not very accurate at all. What gives you the idea, that there are no more bridges after the bridges I crossed? In truth, learning is a never ending series of bridges(your term)

Keeping monitors, is not about reading the directions, heck you have already been exposed to all you need to know to successfully keep monitors.

What you do not know is what is important and how to apply or recognize it. This Clint is where this place falls down on it group face. You see, its kinda like teaching grades 1 thru post doc, all in one class. Too many levels of under or mis understanding.

Its also about needy people, no one has survived long, they are all simply beat to death, sucked dry. You must understand, being blunt(rude) is a protective device, without it, I would have been gone years ago, like the rest. Remember, I am not responsible for anyones needs. If they want to learn about monitors, do it correctly. Research and investigate. This is not the best place for that. A thousand points of view, unfortunately, only a few are useful. There are no grade levels. No novices thru craftsmen. Only lots of people dishing out advice that most learned yesterday from reading it. F

Frank, I didn't mean to say you knew it all, or even insinuate it. It's just that you are many times farther ahead than most others here. I think many, myself included are looking for guides. Let's face it there is not alot of really good monitor husbandry info out there. I research and investigate, I get a little here a little there, many with conflicting info. My thought always has been, go to those who are proven in there field of expertise. Thats why I'm here. I really didn't mean to offend. Clint

I had to read that again. Alright Frank, What is important and how do you apply it. Clint

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=theory

Look down at #4. Even the experts keep the two words close together. Regardless of what you think it meants the definition still regards the two words very closely.

FR, I know you mean well in the forums, and it seems you want a certain kind of forum to post in. However I think you might find yourself to be more beneficial if you try not to tell people what to post, and how to post. Perhaps thats why you often get a negative reaction.

I think that most of the other posters have noticed your fans, those out there that post right after you affirming what you just said. I think that actually takes away from your credibility.

In the words of I beleive Jesse Jackson in responce to the LA riots, "Can't we all just get along?"

All arguments and nastiness aside, that post about nesting, in and of itself, would have been a very good thread starter. Someone asked a very reasonable question about a monitor nesting hole and how to recognise one when they see one. A lot of people (myself included) would have been interested to read peoples’ thoughts and observations. Have you stopped to wonder why, then, no one responded to that post and why everyone is picking it, and you, apart?

It comes down to the fact that the person that posted the question has repeatedly referred to his success with breeding monitors. 'here at varanus creations we have been very successful at...' 'breeders and hobbyists of...' 'we breed them because we like to see the babies hatch..' etc. It therefore seemed very strange that the same person would miss out on the most basic of nesting observations. Oscar will remember me commenting on this a few days ago. Andrew, sometimes you come across as a nice guy, other times you come across as an arrogant sod. That’s just an observation. Others probably feel the same way about me, but you’d have a hard time trying to find a post in which I claim to be a successful monitor breeder. Relax, watch, learn, exchange ideas and stop carrying on about your success and you’ll probably find people responding to your posts rather than attacking them.

Okay, that’s the personal stuff out of the way, now onto the monitor part of your nesting post. Disclaimer: I am very ignorant when it comes to breeding monitors in captivity. I have had one female (of a species that isn't a habitual burrower) lay three clutches, the first I didn’t observe (I was in hospital at the time, the male ate the eggs), the second two were (from what I can tell) good nests. From those two nests what I have observed is this: in preparation for nesting, the female dug a number of test digs, almost all of which were left open (as in your observation with your animal). The most noticeable thing about the actual nesting burrows is that they weren't. Noticeable, that is. They weren't there. Not a trace. A collapsed burrow looks like a collapsed burrow; these finished nests looked like there never was a burrow there. To me, concealing a nest was one of the most interesting things I have seen my monitors do. I got so excited about it that I bored another monitor person with details of it in a lengthy email.

thanks dk,

you are right about what you said. i am arrogant at times. but i do learn. maybe that is the trait about myself i like the most.

thanks for the insight about nesting. i too have seen that and have lost eggs because of it. the part about not knowing the nest was there. it would be much nicer if the darned things would put a sign up saying "eggs here" lol.

thanks dk, andrew

I've been lucky in that regard. The female hasn't put up a sign saying 'eggs here', but has displayed a number of behaviours that have said 'I am about to lay eggs' followed by more behaviours that have said 'I have just laid eggs'. Although it saddens me that I missed her first clutch due to a bizarre sequence of events that lead to a stay in hospital, I at least learned her language for 'I am about to lay eggs' and was fully prepared this season. The telltale behaviours are subtle and possibly unique to her as an individual, rather than species specific, but as she shows very subtle physical signs of being gravid, are important for me to recognise. By her second clutch this season I had her figured out enough to predict when she'd lay, and returned home early from work to catch her laying on the very day I predicted. I may never be that lucky again, though, for even with that clutch I noticed that her behaviours have shifted and seem to be changing a bit with each clutch.

That seems pretty interesting.

she laid during the day for the second clutch this season, the first clutch I am not 100% sure about but it seemed to be early in the morning.