Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So here goes--yesterday Odium sought advice about what to do with a female Pacific Gopher he brought home (see posts below for all the details). Two of us advised against releasing her because of possible pathogens she might get being around a CB snake he already had. Today Andy advised him to let the female drop her eggs (if gravid) and then let her go. Obviously there are two trains of thought here. Anyone out there have hard evidence of the danger in releasing snakes brought in from the wild and kept for a time? Are we being reactionaries or what? Come on KJ, J. Cherry, J.Ginter, et al. What do you think?

Preacher Pat

My person thought is if you bring a snake home for even just one day . I would not release it back into the wild , especially if it has came in contact with any captive snakes. All though it would probly would not pass on any thing to wild population ,but why risk it !
I personally would make or find a home for that snake , I'am sure it will make a great pet for some one.
I know the guy didn't mean to harm any thing. We all need to be careful .

Take care

Jason

well here in arizona it is illigal to capture wild snakes hold them for a certain time and release them because of diseases or a sickness that was in the captive collection and may be released into the wild.

Pat,

To answer your question, I can't specifically refer you to where the information was published. But there have been two articles I recall where wild caught animals were released back into the wild after a stint in captivity. One was on snakes and I don't remember the specifics, but the other was to do with Desert Tortises and a colony of them was decimated due to the captives being released into the group. It nearly wiped them out in that specific area over several years till the group finally recovered.

One other note is that in most states it is illegal to release captive animals back into the wild. Here in Texas it is a misdemeanor and covered under the TP&W regs.

Bottom line, once an animal is removed from a wild population in my opinion it should not ever be released back into the wild. I have even stopped collecting animals, holding them till the next day for pics. and then releasing them. At the least the stress it puts them thru is pretty significant and I believe it to be better to deal with the problems of night photography than to subject them to anything that might be detrimental to them.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

It's on the fuzzy end of my memory section ( a section that gets larger with the passing years) but I seem to remember the same thing happening with a repopulation effort for and island population of rattlesnakes. Seems the released animals decimated the wild pop with a virus or bacteria they were carrying.

John,

Your memory serves you well. There was a study conducted in the Mojave Desert of SE California in the early 90's, and I am aware of others, which involved the introduction of captive raised Gopherus agassizii into an established, yet dwindling, wild population with detrimental effects. The wild colony population became extirpated, due to respiratory infections caused by a pathogen introduced by the captively raised specimens.
There have also been such scenarios recorded amongst Alligator mississippiensis and Macroclemys temmincki. Also, this is a major reason the majority of Fish and Wildlife entities will not release confiscated wildlife back into the wild. Exapmples of such can be found in the state of Florida, where Drymarchon c couperi are often intercepted by officials in the hands of poachers. Such specimens are not released, but placed with various institutions involved with conservation and educational projects regarding such.

Regards,

Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

If there are laws, then how does wildlife rehabilitation fit in? I work at wildlife rehabilitation center, the only freestanding shelter for a long distance around the Houston area. If the law stipulated that wild animals put in captivity CAN NOT be legally released, the how are we allowed to remain open by TPWD? We take in anything from squirrels to baby songbirds to raptors to herps. And many of the animals are nursed to health and then released. I am not doubting there is some law in there, but I think it may be written differently. Because even though they are being "rehabilitated" they are still in captivity, and would thus fall under the category of non-releasable.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

You need to re-read the post, and the ordinance I posted regarding such, The area regarding licensed rehabilitators was covered. ONLY licensed rehabilitators may do such, along with individuals holding vaild permits and officials doing such, as a requirement of their specific duties.
If you are indeed a wildlife rehabilitator, you are certainly aware of the protocol one must follow, in regards to quarantine and maintenance of such specimens.
This simply means the average lay person cannot release captive wildlife back into the wild. That is why the specimen should be relinquished to an entity who can legally dispatch it.
This really is a matter of "common sense" in my humble opinion. There are a variety of studies indicating the ramifications of releasing such specimens, that's why virtually every state in the union has such an ordinance.
I suggest you contact Texas Parks and Wildlife, see if you can speak with Andy Price of Phil Potter, as they will be able to give you a better run down on such ordinances within the Great State of Texas!

Regards,

Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

Figured I'd chime in here. I have run into some serious frustration with this snake. I have called every wildlife shelter in the Sacramento area and NO ONE will take a snake. The most they did was refer me to the next rescue center on the list. Every place took birds, and mammals. Reptiles were not something they wanted to deal with. I found this a little strange since growing up every place around here had various native reptiles in their care. Finally one place refered me to the local Fish and Wildlife warden. I thought I'd finally get some help, and to my dismay he has no help to offer. Not only did he have no suggestion as to who may be able to assist me, his response was "I don't have any suggestions for you. You should probably just release it." I think this snake is going to stay with a herpatologist uncle of mine if it goes anywhere. I know it'll be in good hands.

Man, I've got to tell you I think it's in great hands just where it is!!! You've learned from your mistake, you've done far more than most to get it where it belongs, so you obviously care about how you do things. Your Bull (which BTW, looks great!) shows that you know what you are doing!!! Pacific Gophers are one my top 4 favorites in the Pit world (I'm raising a trio now for future breeding!) so why not enjoy a great snake!

Preacher Pat

Sounds all too familiar. Personally, I would not have contacted a shelter, rescue or game warden. Most of these entities are not familiar with reptiles, or laws regarding non-game species. That's why I suggested a museum of natural science, university or your state DNR.
If you contact the state DNR, ask for someone in the wildlife management division, not enforcement.
It sounds as though you have found a suitable placement, so I wish you the best.
By the way, it is nice to see photos of specimens found in the wild posted on here.

Jeff Snodgres
University of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

Now that you mention it John I remember info. put out by the San Diego Turtle and Tortoise people about a respiratory ailment that Desert Tortoises catch in captivity and the dangers it poses for the wild population that is in decline from other factors.

BTW, my Boss has this thing about not coveting my neighbor's possessions. Everytime you post a picture of your Red Bulls I am sorely tempted!!!! That is a fantastic strain!

Preacher Pat

Actually, I made the point based on the legal aspect.
Many states maintain ordinances regarding the re-release of wildlife, once it has been taken into captivity, regardless of the amount of time maintained. Most states do however make exceptions for certified wildlife rehabilitators and various professional organizations.
It was my suggestion that teh snake be relinquished to an entity with the ability to make an informed, and legal, decision as to how such a situation should be dispatched.
So far as ethics, it would be seemingly reasonable to hold the specimen, until such time the clutch is deposited, then release it. However, this could possibly place the individual doing such in a legally compromised position.

Below is a descriptive indicating Arkansas's ordinance regarding the release of both native and non-native species, once in captivity:

15.05 Release of Native and Non-native Wildlife Prohibited.
It shall be unlawful to release into the wild any native or non-native species of wildlife without prior approval of the Commission.

Exceptions:

A. In accordance with a valid Commercial Game Bird Shooting Resort Permit.
B. AGFC personnel in the performance of their official duties.

PENALTY: $500.00 to $1000.00

Regards,

Jeff Snodgres
Univerity of Arkansas
snodgresjeffreys@uams.edu
501.526.4856

Thanks Guys for a great discussion! Hopefully everyone who goes out in the field will remember to be careful. I gotta say $500-$1000 catches my attention real quick!!!!!!

Preacher Pat