Reptile & Amphibian Forums

We've had the vet do every test I can think of. Fecals, CBC, more blood work, x-rays and a barium study. No diagnosis.

Now tonight after her shot (Fortaz, 1cc, every 3 days)and right before I clamped the lid down on her soaking box, I noticed her breathing. You could hear it clearly. The most troubling thing is I could hear both, her exhalations and inhalations. It's never happened before. Not both.

Something clearly been wrong, but now it's getting VERY scary. She's been on the meds for over a month now, I raised her temps (92-95 hot side, 77-81 coolside)and her humidity (it was believed the RI was caused by not enough humidity)and still no progress.

The next step, my vet said, is going to be exploratory surgery, an endoscopy. I don't want to do it if it's not neccesary, but at this point I just want to get her well again. It was painfull to sit there and listen to her struggle for breath. I don't know what to do. Any advice would be tremendously appreciated.

RayRay

p.s I took some video feed of it with my digital camera. I'm trying to figure out how to link it so everyone can hear it first hand.

I think the only test that needs to be done in this case is a throat culture. I don't know why a vet would do any of the other ones. I have found that Fortaz is good for some infections but not others. When Fortaz doesn't work, Baytril usually does, in my experience anyway. So I'd ask the vet for Baytril. You mentioned a soaking box and was wondering why you are soaking it? I would set it up with a good size water bowl for humidity.
web site

-----
Mark Kennedy Reptiles

Baytril seems to be falling out of favor due to the higher incidence of sterile abcesses and accompanying scarring at the injection site. It can be given orally but it must be done much more frequently and can be more invasive to do so on larger snakes. Ceftazidime does not have these issues and can cover similar pathogens.
But be careful when soaking the snake. In humans, humidifiers are used to moisten airways to facilitate the passage (coughing up) of the built up mucus. So when you soak your snake, you are adding moisture to that pre-existing mucus. The only problem is snakes do not have the exceedingly powerful coughing mechanism that humans do. So they in turn can actually seem do worse if exposed to high humidity for very long periods as the mucus only thickens. Whether or not higher humidity is truly helpful or not is a complex question. It can be difficult to tell what is actually helping or hurting. Soaking can make things seem like the breathing is becoming even more labored, making the keeper think the infection is still there or even getting worse when it actually may be getting better. But with all antibiotics (some much more than others) proper hydration is important. The keeper must ride that fine line of what they think may be helping during the course of treatment. URIs are funny things to treat. Some need all sorts of ABs while others just need to be left alone.
Good luck!

-Yasser
-----

Yes that is true about Baytril. I have a retic here that had a mouth infection. I went through 3 rounds of Fortaz which did absolutely nothing in healing the infection, but after switching to Baytril it cleared right up. I'd rather have a healthy super tiger with a small scar than a dead super tiger. lol
-----
Mark Kennedy Reptiles

You should feel lucky no doubt. We lost our female super this last winter from stomatitis, the drug prescribed was baytril. Wich unfortunetly didnt work. However we have used amakacin before with good results. -Shaun D

Hi Shaun, can you tell me what kind of symptems your retic had? Bloating after a meal or any neurological disorder? Thanks
-----
Mark Kennedy Reptiles

She only had a mild case of stomititis actualy, I took her in for amikacin treatment. However the vet had nothing for her except Baytril. She was confined in a lyon electric type incubator during treatment and givin fluids. Her mouth was cleaned daily, but needless to say my efforts were futile. The baytril did not seem to fight the infection soon enough wich spread rather quickly to the bone tissue. After fighting for awhile I decided it was time to put her down. There were no other symptoms of any type in this animal before. She was growing quickly and had behaved very well. I still donot know what caused the stomitis either all I can assume is that she had injured her mouth feeding. I am almost certain that if we would have had the proper drugs she may be around still, however that is somthing we will never know. -Shaun D

If anyone ever requires any of the aminoglycoside, cephalosporin, or other antibiotics used in human medicine, all the vet needs to do is write a prescription for them. The vet will obviously want to examine the snake first. You can then take that to the nearest hospital pharmacy and purchase them yourself. At that point you can either have the vet administer them, or do it yourself if you are experienced with it. Vets will rarely try to locate drugs they don't already stock themselves.

Kelly

Unfortunately, Baytril does not have a good track record in the treatment of stomatitis or other similar deep tissue type infections. Amikacin or tobramycin would have been more effective in most cases. The best antibiotic in have ever seen for stomatitis is a third generation cephalosporin called ceftriaxone, trade name Rocephin. It is related to ceftazidime, has the same dosage, and is extremely effective in the treatment of these type of infections. The only drawback is that it is somewhat expensive. I have seen it resolve cases of stomatitis that appeared to be beyond successful treatment. Sorry to hear about your female.

Kelly

Ray,
I agree with Mark in that I am also surprised that the vet has not done antibiotic sensitivity tests on glottis cultures seeing that ceftazidime has proven ineffective for several weeks, and he is considering an invasive procedure at this point. Is your python breathing with a wet hiss and clear mucous in the mouth, or more of a depth rattling in the lungs with a thick opaque mucous around the nose, mouth, and on the cage glass. This are two different sets of symptoms for two different stages of respiratory infection. The first stage infections can be treated effectively with ceftazidime, ciprofloxacin, or Baytril. While both ciprofloxacin and Baytril are fluoroquinolone antibiotics, ciprofloxacin has proven to be more effective than Baytril. If not too advanced, in many cases this stage can also be treated by just elevating the cage temperature. If your python is into the second stage infection, it is unlikely that any of these antibiotics will be effective and your best bet is an aminoglycoside antibiotic such as amikacin or tobramycin. Although they are not as safe as the first group, they can be used safely with the proper dosage. Contrary to popular belief, it is not necessary to manually hydrate the snake when using aminoglycosides, but you must always have fresh water readily available at all times. Preferably in a low sided bowl. As Yasser stated, keep the humidity fairly high ( 70 to 80 % ), but not overly high, and temps around 90 with no cool side. Provided your python is diagnosed with a respiratory infection, I hope this will give you a little more information to work with. Good luck and keep us posted.

Kelly

Thanks SOOO much for the advice everyone! I'm going to relay ALL of it to my vet. It seems kinda funny that i'd have to tell him what to do. Oh well, as long as it gets done, and she gets well again. That's all that I care about.

Thanks again.

RayRay