Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Once again, sorry to hear it bloodbat.

I introduced a new kimberly female a couple months ago. She was fine, healthy and doing quite well. The other female did not like her and they would fight at times, but it was a little biting at the feet, nothing major.

The male bred the new female, she became gravid, laid eggs and then seemed horrible. Note: the eggs were flipped when removed. they seemed fine at first and then went bad about 4 (or so)days later.

Note: I supplement my kimberlys everytime they eat. I supplement crickets and pinks. I have been very consistent with this.

I questioned removing her but the other two seemed great and I didn't want to mess her up even more, muck it up so to speak.

I found her dead yesterday.

I should have: never introduced another female (the other pair was established)

known that problems would have occurred with a dominant female and a new one.

The only good part of this: The other pair is doing quite well and are doing everything they should.

Hopefully some of you will learn from this when thinking about introducing monitors to an established group (or pair in this case).

andrew

i realize that it may not be all about introducing a female.

glaeurti are difficult to keep and most people's have died.

my experience stems from only one pair, so i do not know for sure. but they do very well and both the female and male i have had have proven very hardy with all of my mistakes.

andrew

hahaha, but it's true!!

I have not read anything good YET regarding a trio of monitors. And I read a LOT.

Trios suck, suck, suck, suck, suck!!!!!!!!
Why is it no one else sees this?

I have to think, the only possible reason keepers keep forcing the trio issue is greed. (No offense to you, Andrew, its all keepers).
You know, cost effectiveness, house more monitors in less cages, try and get more eggs (from females) out of each male(who costs money to maintain). This is my opinion only, as I haven't talked to many keepers about their intentions. But I hope to goodness all the keepers out there cut it out risking fighting and injuries to third wheel monitors just for the lure of extra eggs.

I hope people also have keeping their animals HAPPY as a goal.
D.

i completely agree goon.

yes, keeping my monitors happy is the goal. i work hard for them, i hope others do the same for them.

i quote gene: "we are their butler"

keep up the hard work goon, andrew

It depends of the trio, I have had some amazing trios/groups, FR stops, dreams, remembers the 60's. What! oh monitors, them too.

Yes its true, stops dreams, pinches himself, I mean with monitors. Yes, trios, groups, but, its much harder to allow and its much harder to maintain. When one individual goes silly, you lose a group, not a pair.

But, even if its possible, why on earth would beginers WANT to go about breeding monitors the hard way. Like my mother use to say, get yourself a nice shizza, whoops, wrong life. Get you yourself a nice latina. There u go, thats this life alright. Wait, get a nice pair and and keep the unknowns to a minimum. FR

No woman would ever want to share you!
Huh? oh yea, ..monitors...

Well, they are still females, and females don't like to share...which sucks for the randy males...oh well... there's a lot to be said for domestic peace, yep, just ask happy monitors, they know...
D.

I have so far kept ackies in a quatro, I have tristis in a trio, and crosses in trios. I haven't been successful breeding them so it is not for greed or eggs. I do have the ability and space to keep them in pairs but I haven't had a problem yet. Maybe I should remove one and see if my monitors breed then, that would be interesting..... I may try it.
But I don't think trios suck. I just posted some pics of pairs from my trip to Mexico. What I didn't post was that I also saw trios, mostly pairs, but also trios. As soon as I walked out the front door I could look up into a light fixture and see 3 geckos in there. My first thought was they gathered there at night to eat the bugs when the light was on. The next day (in the morning)I checked it again to find the geckos didn't leave but were in a hole where the wiring went, all 3. They were there every time I checked, everyday. Trios didn't suck to them. I am not sure what there sexes were but does it matter? They where in a trio. I also saw basilisks very close together sharing the same compost pile and a pair of iguanas that shared a crack with a juvie iguana. Oh yes and anoles come 50 to a tree. If they can do it out there why not in our cages? I understand that some just don't like others but a working trio is just that. I would say trios and pairs both work, but as monitors are individuals some groups may and some may not, treat accordingly.
Alan.......go see the garter love fest and take pics, now that is social hahahahaha.

I loved your pics from Mexico- thanks!

Trios suck, IMO, in captivity.

Hey, the whole rest of what I wrote didn't make it!

Anyways, I congratulated you on being sensitive enough to your animals to make trios sucessful. I just don't think Joe Average should try it.
My opinion, only. Lots of risk, for what gain?
D.

Just addressing the animal groups you saw in Mexico, when they are in the wild they can choose if they want to be a pair, trio, etc. If they don't like the other guys, they can leave. In a cage, that choice has been taken away from them. It certainly can work in captivity, but the keepers must be very vigilant to be watching for any signs of cage mate aggression and act immediately. I have a quartet of ackies and they have been fine so far. We all know that each animal is different and has its' own personality, so we must treat them accordingly. I have been looking into getting Storr's monitors, but more than one person told me that they are extremely aggressive to cage mates...so who knows?

Pam

It might not work in every situation. But it does work and has worked. Not everyone is ready for it, or to try it. But noone was around to hold my hand and guide me when I tried it. I learned from trying.

I have some reptiles and yes even monitors that work fine together in a group. I have others that do not. It is pretty easy for me to tell when they do not work. The simple thing to do then is break up the group.

So I wouldn't dismiss it all. I also do not believe everyone is doing it in hopes to get rich quick or to get more production. Atleast I hope not, cause the more the harder not easier.

i have a red ackie trio that gets along beautifully, one female is not any less healthy than the other at all. the males in the groups always seem to be healthy as they seem to be dominant.

i was not saying that trios are bad. what is bad is introducing a third to an established pair, in my opinion. i have also seen this with argus.

andrew

Please do not take this as an offence. But when you say they "work" for you, what does that mean? Is your definition, they exsist together? or are they successfully producing babies?

You see, you seem to be doing what andrew does, your saying they (groups) work, yet, for you they have not worked(no recruitment) Or have they?

In my experience, over many years is, you can recieve more babies from a pair, then from a trio. This statement is about average over time. I have had some great results with groups and trios. But somehow, always something happens to the groups. Many of our successful groups dwindle down to pairs after only a couple years. Others simply fail.

This is not saying its the monitors fault, or that they never live/exsist/breed, in groups in nature. Or you cannot do that. Its only that because of OUR limitations, we as keepers seem to cause failures. I believe its a very simple cause and effect, we simply do not offer and continue to offer proper resources.

Time is so very important, because it reveals your weaknesses. For instance, its very difficult to support a multiclutching female, even during one season, muchless season after season. That is multiplied my the number of individuals in a cage. How many times do you not feed, is more important then how many you do. In a group that is disasterous. You now have three, four, five starving individuals, instead of one or two. The chances of something bad happening is far greater.

As advanced keepers, you and I think its fairly simple to keep a monitor alive. We even think its simple to breed them and get eggs. We also understand how to allow individuals to be compatible, Yet, getting eggs that make babies is a little more complicated. Now to get females that produce offspring year after year. That is a very meaningful and telling result. But getting females in groups to multiclutch successfully(hatched healthy babies) year after year is the answer to this. That Jody is the difinition of working.

So, please understand, I love your approach, I love the passion and work you put in, but understand, there is suppose to be something on the other side of the equals sign,
1(male) 1(female)= X(viable offspring). That is a successful equation.
1(male) 2(female)=2X(viable offspring)That is successful.
2 3=3X, etc. This too is successful
2 4=1.5X, this is not successful.
2 4=0 or 1 3=0 or 1 5=0 these are incomplete equations, no results. They did not work.

An even goofier way to understand this is. 1 2 is suppose to result in a higher number then, 1 1. 1 2 > 1 1, If a group does not exceed the result of a pair, then it cannot be considered successful. 1 2 < 1 1. Please remember, i understand the animals are not numbers, but after years of results, the results can be measured in numbers. These numbers define "results"

You surely can say, you keep groups together without problem, but its another thing altogether to say they "work" because you have not shown that part of the equation. Thanks for reading FR