Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Right, Ive been thinking about getting a hot snake for quite somewhile. Ive been keeping a large aggressive/quick and snappy FWC who hates being handled and goes mad even when you try and touch him with a snake hook.

When I do his daily cleaning etc I always use a trap box as this I think is the safest way to clean and maintain his cage.

My qusetion is what kind of hot is suitable for me next? Im thinking of some kind of rattlesnake, which one would be best?

Just as a thought exercise, what would you do if your FWC had retained eyecaps?
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

If I had to, I would carefully remove snake from viv, which I've had to do in the past. Then I would soak snake in warm water whilst holding his head firmly, hopfully this would work. If not I would carefully soak a cotton swab in mineral oil and gentle apply to eyes then return to the warm water then hopefully they will fall off within 24 hours. I have used this way before and works a treat it is not harmfull to the snake but will probaly be a little more difficult with my FWC. Also I would get someone to help me. Hopefully it wont happen because he is always soaking in his water tub.

Would you be comfortable doing this to a rattler? How are you getting a hold of the head without getting bitten? Rattlers aren't big for retaining shed, as far as I can tell, but like the other poster said there is a pretty decent chance you will have to be hands on with a hot at some point in its life. So trap boxes are a great idea but there's more to handling venomous than... not handling them.

(I've had an atrox for 2 years or so, and I haven't actually had to do anything too hands on with her. Rattlers tend to be healthy animals. But I'm confident that I could handle her in close range if the need came up. I have someone to help me too though)

(Also, I don't know if I'd recommend starting with an atrox or not. They don't give any quarter, but they also don't let you get complacent. Sort of a tradeoff.)
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

You make an excellent point: keeping hots (or any snake, but especially hots because of the reluctance of vets to treat them) is not just about being able to clean their cages safely, it's also being able to medicate or treat the animal for various ailments, and being able to do so without getting tagged...as for your question, if you want a rattler, i would pick a smaller, easier to manage one like a lep or even a pig...i'm partial to atrox, but i don't know if they make they make the best first HOT hot, hehehe...a copperhead would be a good choice too for a first pitviper...

Well this is just my two-cent.

Well before I ever even thought about handling hots I practiced for about a year with a very nippy water snake I kept. I think If you have only had the FWC for a few weeks you should wait, then again I am only 16 but I would hate for you to have 400 mg of hemotoxin pumping though you because you jumped into keeping hots too early. I don’t keep hots but I do snake removal. I just ask that you take your time, if you wait one year longer you may LIVE 30 years longer!!!!!!

alot of people suggest a pygmy for a first rattler...i dont know y. maybe its just my pygmy but if i had a choice id rather have to restrain and medicate my mojave then i would my pygmy..pygmys are very snappy and to small to hold and restrain correctly and they often dont hook well either..but hey my first hot was a 3 foot cottonmouth so you dont have to take my advice

I think it would be better to learn from a nervous and snappy pigmy rattler than an overly docile sp, as the latter may give beginners a false sense of security.
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I do not keep venomous myself, am only interested so am not one to judge but as you have only had your FWC a few weeks I would not be thinking about a rattler for quite some time.

Regards
Ben

In my admittedly fairly limited experience with FWC's they were nothing, not even close, to any Crotalid out there. FWC's don't command the same respect that a Crotalid (or any possibly lethal snake) does.

In regards to how you would handle a bad shed, certainly your way will work on a FWC for a front fanged snake though that is an invitation to be bitten.

Before you even seriously think about getting something lethal get some advice and/or some hands on experience from someone who has been doing this awhile. If you cannot, don't keep venomous snakes.

I wish you the best of luck though, and certainly hope that you can get some more experience before you jump in head first.

You might oughta get a fecal from that FWC into a vet. If it's large & snappy, it may well have a parasite problem. Youngsters I have had were snappy, but none of the several adults I have had were anything but at worst a little skittish.
I kept 'em for 13 years, & bred several.

~~Greg~~

You would not want to do that with a viper of any kind...... The best way to deal with an eye cap is to put alittle scotch tape on the end of a snake hook and gently touch the cap with the tape..... If that fails then you would have to get alittle more physical and remove it while properly restraining it...... Careful, because front folding fangs can go a long way.....

The key word here is "gently". I hear a lot of veterinarians talking about serious eye injuries to captive snakes inflicted by their keepers who were attempting to remove eyecaps. It's easier to damage a snake's eye that way than most people thing.

A drug called Mucomyst, acetylcysteine, has been helpful in my experience in helping to dissolve the bonds on retained spectacles with **very gentle** circular rubbing with a q-tip.

Under proper husbandry conditions you won't have eyecap problems, so learn your snakes before you get a new one.
A False Water Cobra envenomation is ablsolutely nothing to ignore. It would be no more or less severe than a sidewinder.
The basics that everyone misses when this question comes up is this.
Your first starter venomous snake is a well written venomous snake book. And then another, and then another, and so on and so on.
Everyone will have you believe that keeping venomous snakes is difficult. It is no more difficult than a non-venomous snake, when you have the right knowledge.
If you don't know what the right knowledge is then you are not ready.
The 16 year old had the best answer for you. "Wait".
The point is if you have to come here for a "quick" fix to the questions you have, than you should probably go back to the library.
one eyecap does no harm, two eyecaps do no harm. The less intrusive, the less stress and therefore the less dead your snake (or you) will be.
Learn your knowledge, learn your husbandry, get a mentor, get your antivenom, get your cage setup, get your snake!
It's as simple as that.
There is no such thing as a good starter snake, let alone a venomous one. Until you have your knowledge!
Especially not a Western Diamondback Rattlesnake, Crotalus atrox.
Terry
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry

It is true that good husbandry can help prevent retained spectacles, but it is also true that you will sometimes run into a situation like this that needs addressing. Leaving it alone is certainly preferable to an unskilled attempt that could do damage, but it's not always the ideal solution. Retained spectacles can cause more serious health problems if they are allowed to persist.

Thanks for all your comments. I will not get a hot for quite some time. I will also do alot more research and have found a course in advanced herpetology which included husbandry/handling skills of venomous reptiles here in th UK.

Either of the Pigmy Rattlers are a good choice, aswell as rock rattlers. I'd stay away from the sidewinders, Massasauga's, Crotalus viridis subspecies, or any of the other medium sized rattlesnakes. Definitely don't get a WDB. Getting a smaller/younger snake and raising it is always preferable, especially w/ venomous.

There's plenty of valuable information on the captive care of venomous reptiles online (google), in libraries (outdated, but worthwhile I suppose), aswell as a few books in print. I'd check them out as much as possible before you get your first real hot snake.

that c. atrox was a good starter hot (or viperid, since the fellow in question has a FWC)...personally, I feel that the best starter hot is a very broad question. Take me for example. When I started working with hots, I started immediately with rattlers under the guidance of a mentor, and since where we live, atrox are the most common rattlers, i worked with them (and mojaves next) the most. I have no experience with timbers or easterns, which are considerably larger and different in terms of habits and temperments, so I probably wouldn't pick one of them as a first viperid. But I might choose an atrox or even a mojave only because I do have experience with them. So really, it boils down to your familiarity with the species, and that is why "what is a good starter hot" is such a broad question. Now if you are getting into this hobby alone (without a mentor), then you have to be more selective. A FWC is not a bad choice. Nor is a mangrove, which I chose as a first hot. Of course doing your homework is a must. I researched b. dendrophila for 3 months before getting mine, and that is probably why she is doing as well as she is, though I had zero experience with this snake prior. A matter of fact, I had zero experience with arboreals prior, but by doing my homework, I've been able to keep her healthy and happy.

AP