Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I keep seeing these posts from people who say that females shouldn't be bred if they "don't have fat pockets under their arms" Some females will NEVER develop these.. despite being over 50 grams. I have a het blizzard female who weighs in at 58 grams now.. She breeds fine.. doesn't lose hardly any body mass, is fed exclusively on mealworms and has no fat pockets behind her arms. I have a 65 gram male blizzard that also doesn't have them. My Tangerine Albino... is 45 grams now...she also has no fat pockets. Just because a leo doesn't have fat pockets does NOT mean she isn't in condition to breed. It just means she doesn't deposit fat beneath her arms. My Tang albino is even being bred at 45 grams.. has lost no weight due to it.. and laid two beautiful fertile eggs 4 days ago. I supplement calcium daily with my breeding females and vitamins every other day. I see no reason to tell people that just because an individual animal does not have fat pockets that they aren't suitable to be bred yet. Some geckos NEVER reach over 50 grams.. I had one who was born small.. a male... he never grew over 7 inches and maybe 40 grams... he was fatter for his size than he had any right to be. There is a very natural variation in size and weight between leos. Not all of them are going to fit the average.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 het Blizzard (Lilith) and 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

i dont own a female like that either even though one weighed 70g and she was probably around 7 inches as well and she lossed a massive amount of weight due to breeding but shes eating again and doing fine but she was of age and deffinatly of weight it was just her first time so it was rough on her...
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-Bryan

I can recall reading that fatty underarm pockets were a sign of over supplementation in day geckos, but I have never seen this mentioned of leos. I know the leo manual says that it is a good sign that your gecko is in breeding condition. Does anyone have any thoughts or comments on this discussion?

Yeah its a good sign.. but its not the be all and end all factor to consider when deciding if your female is in breeding condition. As I said, not all females will form these fat pockets.. Quite a few never do despite being fed more than they should be. Myself, I'll breed a female if she's over 7 inches and weighs more than 42 grams.. I have yet to have a problem with doing things this way. 50 grams is a bit much to expect for all females since normal males might get up to 70 or 80 grams but they can be 3 or 4 inches longer than a female can. My females will hit 42 grams at 8 months of age... Though I wait until they're a full year before I breed them.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 het Blizzard (Lilith) and 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

The only reason I say they should have the fat pockets is

1. The leopard gecko manual says it. I know we don't have to follow it exactly, but why does it even mention it if its not important?

2. I have 10 females and all but 1 have the fat pockets. The girl who doesn't have them was bred too early and it stunted her growth. She only weighs 48 grams, but she still has a fat tail. All of the other girls are over 57 grams. The little girl also got beat up by my male so I have to keep her seperate from the other leos. Maybe my male is just too big....

3. I just have the feeling that it is easier on their bodies if they have more weight, when breeding. Sorry I have no evidence.

4. If you think about humans, usually women who have nice curves appear to be the most suitable to give birth. That is one theory as to why men like larger breasts, it's a sign of fertility. I know skinny women are fertile too, but it just makes sense to have wide hips and large breasts.

Sorry if you don't agree with anything I say. It's just my opinion. If your girls are doing fine then maybe I should try breeding my girl who doesn't have the fat pockets, again.

We all have different opinions,

Matt

PS: I like debating

Not that i wish to debate the subject but to add perspective, not all rules apply to all individuals. The majority of woman in my family are of the larger sort...big hips but my mother will agree that just because one has large hips does not mean they are able to give birth, she had to have a C-section 3 times (=3 kids). Same went for my grandmother on my fathers side although her appendex burst during labour so thats a factor not really related LOL. Perhaps it has to do with our general height, that being we are short, i myself have maxed out at 4'9 1/2" tall. I don't know if i'll be able to give birth, haven't tried yet, need a man first LOL, but despite my larger measurements, i'm not going to hold my breath for going natural. The odds are stacked against me with the number of c-sections that have had to happen in my family.
In my original group of 5 female leos there are a few that have HUGE tails, yet their body mass is quite small, in comparison, there are ones that have large bodies and their tails aren't as huge. Then again you have Dot, who is huge compared to all of them, the little mealworm hog......hehehe Right now i'd only consider breeding Dot as her overall mass is nice and plump and i think the drain on her system wouldn't end up being to much. None of my geckos, except Bubbles, has the arm pit fat stores, but Bubbles is ummmmmm different, inflating them at will....i don't think it has to do with fat in her case LMAO
Well thats enough of my rambling
Red

>>4. If you think about humans, usually women who have nice curves appear to be the most suitable to give birth. That is one theory as to why men like larger breasts, it's a sign of fertility. I know skinny women are fertile too, but it just makes sense to have wide hips and large breasts.
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Crested Gecko Zeek:1.0, Ziggy and Zeus
LEOS: Boo: 1.0 normal , Bronx & Nala: 1.1 blizzard,
Lily: 0.1 patternless, Abby: 0.1 albino, Zoe: 0.1 reduced pattern, Dot: 0.1 hypo
New Girls: Flame, Karma, Bubbles and Bell pics coming soon
Chip: 1.0 papillion (small dog)

If you really do want whats best for the leo you should wait until they are at least a year and half or 2 years old. New people ask for advice and I just tell them based on my experiences. It is true that you can breed smaller girls, but its not really fair on the leo.

Again, just my opinion.