Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello,
I am from Amsterdam the Netherlands. I want to try to get as much as possible information about Elaphe Diones. When I am reading the articles/answers on this forum about colours/patterns and localities it is sometimes difficult to understand what is common or what is rare. For example the pictures of the Diones from mr. Ivan Arinin are very special, I am jealous. Is the next thing correct?
Locality: Altai, Caucasus, Cherski, China, Korea and Turcmenistan,
Colours/patterns: Nigrita (var), Striped, Tenebrosa,
I know that mr. KD. Schulz did not mentioned subspecies. And as far as I know there are no official subspecies, but is this correct? Once I hope to see all the different kind of Diones in Tula Zoo. The most people, they are the specialists for me, on this forum who are writing about Diones are Terry Cox, Ivan Arinin, Terry Parks and Sacha Korrel. Are more people breeding with Diones? Does someone know people in Western Europe? In the Netherlands we have about five people breeding with Diones.

Thank a lot for your answers, Wim (www.elaphedione.nl)
Dione site

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Ivan did post some nice pics with a lot of color and pattern variation. I am still learning a lot of what you posted. I do have 2 pairs of S. Korean diones, 1 pair of C.China diones, 1 pair of E. diones "tenebrosia" and a trio of E. diones. Rick Cunningham has several different color/pattern and locale diones that he breeds. His web site is one of the sponsors of this fourm at the top. It is Cunningham's Elaphe. Terry Cox produced the S. Koreans I have. They were produced from w/c that he got from Seol, Korea.

Terry Parks

>>Hello,
>>I am from Amsterdam the Netherlands. I want to try to get as much as possible information about Elaphe Diones. When I am reading the articles/answers on this forum about colours/patterns and localities it is sometimes difficult to understand what is common or what is rare. For example the pictures of the Diones from mr. Ivan Arinin are very special, I am jealous. Is the next thing correct?
>>Locality: Altai, Caucasus, Cherski, China, Korea and Turcmenistan,
>>Colours/patterns: Nigrita (var), Striped, Tenebrosa,
>>I know that mr. KD. Schulz did not mentioned subspecies. And as far as I know there are no official subspecies, but is this correct? Once I hope to see all the different kind of Diones in Tula Zoo. The most people, they are the specialists for me, on this forum who are writing about Diones are Terry Cox, Ivan Arinin, Terry Parks and Sacha Korrel. Are more people breeding with Diones? Does someone know people in Western Europe? In the Netherlands we have about five people breeding with Diones.
>>
>>Thank a lot for your answers, Wim (www.elaphedione.nl)
>>Dione site
>>
>>-----
>>Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

To Terry P.

Thanks for your answer.
But what do you mean with "They were produced from w/c that he got from Seol, Korea"" . Wat is w/c?
And are you more intereseted in colors/pattern or in localities?
Where are the people I mentioned before living, VS/Canada/Europe/Russia?
Is Ivan Arinin a member of the staff from mr. Sergei Ryabov?

Thanks for the answers already. I am curious to know.

Regards Wim.

Dione site (Dutch)

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

>>Hello,
>>I am from Amsterdam the Netherlands. I want to try to get as much as possible information about Elaphe Diones. When I am reading the articles/answers on this forum about colours/patterns and localities it is sometimes difficult to understand what is common or what is rare. For example the pictures of the Diones from mr. Ivan Arinin are very special, I am jealous. Is the next thing correct?
>>Locality: Altai, Caucasus, Cherski, China, Korea and Turcmenistan,
>>Colours/patterns: Nigrita (var), Striped, Tenebrosa,

>>I know that mr. KD. Schulz did not mentioned subspecies. And as far as I know there are no official subspecies, but is this correct? Once I hope to see all the different kind of Diones in Tula Zoo. The most people, they are the specialists for me, on this forum who are writing about Diones are Terry Cox, Ivan Arinin, Terry Parks and Sacha Korrel. Are more people breeding with Diones? Does someone know people in Western Europe? In the Netherlands we have about five people breeding with Diones.
>>
>>Thank a lot for your answers, Wim (www.elaphedione.nl)
>>Dione site
>>
>>-----
>>Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Hello, Wim.

Terry Cox

Ratsnake Haven Gallery

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Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.

Hello Terry,

Nice to hear from you. Where do you live in the states?
I did not know that there was so much difference between de N. and S. Korea, I have (2003 (0,2) Korea's. But I do not know where they from, can you see the difference?

http://www.elaphedione.nl/Diones/Foto pagina's/Korea foto's.htm
As soon as the sun will shine I can take better pictures.
On this moment, we have (we = my 15 y old son and I):
- Cherskyi dark 2002 (1,1), 1998 (0,1) 2000 (1,0)= from Sergei R., 2003 (0,1)= our own offspring
- Normal 1998 (1,0), 2000 (0,2)
- Caucasus 2001 (1,0)
- China 2001 (1,1), 2000 ( 1,1),
- Altai 2001 (1,1)
- Korea's 2003 (0,2)

Can you tell me what the exact difference is between the China's and Korea's.
Also between the China's and the Bimaculata's. The difference that KDS mentioned is not so easy to use (for me?). Not so much to distinguish I think. But I am not a expert.

Best regard Wim.
(Sorry that my English is so bad)
Dione site (Dutch)

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Hi, Wim.

Those questions are a little difficult to answer, but I'll try. The South Korean dione tend to be a little lighter colored than the northerns. I had a pair of northerns and they were kind of dark greenish with pretty dark stripes. My South Koreans have lighter browns and reddish-brown blotches, etc. They have some yellow also. I have not seen these anywhere else, so assume that further south will provide even lighter colored individuals. Here's a couple pics...
These are the original pair of dione from Seoul...

This is the male on a good day...

He's very old now, at least ten yrs. old.
This is one of the F1 generation...

Their 2nd clutch in my possession in 2002 produced 16 eggs. I noticed that the clutch in your photos showed at least ten eggs. Is that how many was there?

Your snakes look very nice. I think they are from North Korea. They probably have the same nice, friendly personality, and are very hardy, like the others.

Chinese dione from the central plains and hills tend to be yellowish, sometimes very yellow. The main difference, however, is in behavior. I like them, but they are much faster than the Koreans, and not as much fun to hold.

The bimaculatas are very different in behavior, more secretive for one thing. I can tell by sight which species it is, but it's easier in person, because of the behavior. There's much variation in color and pattern, and that's what confuses people the most. Here's a pic of fairly typical bimaculata...

Notice the quite large spotting in the pattern. Also, the head shape is somewhat different. Many people have trouble telling the differences. Just learn what they are, and then try to get used to them through the years. Then you'll know. They are quite different ecologically.

PS: I live in Michigan, USA.

Regards,

TC/Ratsnake Haven

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Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.

Wim,
yes, i work in Tula Exotarium and S. Ryabov is my boss.

E. dione have broad areal and have many color variation.

Blotched Tenebrosa: Russia, Altai
Patternless Tenebrosa: Eastern parts of Kasakhstan
Normal (greenish-grey): East of Russia (Vladivostok)
Striped: all forms of striped dione we have was breed in captivity (yellow, brown, grey and etc.)
Grey: lake Baykal and other nearest area.
Cherskyi: Russia, Cherskyi mountains.

This species not have any subspecies.

Do you wish visit our Exotarium?
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Color variation which you mention as Nigrita we called as Melanistic. Its origin from Mozdok, N. Kaukasus. We also have whitestriped melanistic.
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Hello Ivan, Terry P. and Terry C.,

Nice to hear from you also, just like Terry P. and Terry C. With each mail, we (my son also) learn more about the localities and varieties. Maybe nice to know, one of our species (Cherskyi 1998 male) is from your Exotarium.

You asked me; “Do you wish visit our Exotarium?” of course we want to do that. I am looking forward to see you collection at the Exotarium. What are the possibilities? I know that Timo is coming over to Mr. S. Ryabov this autumn.
I have a question, is it possible the buy Diones from the Exotarium or you? Of course there is paperwork to do to get the Diones to the Netherlands (inside the European Community), but is there a possibility? Or is it quite easy, I really don’t know? Maybe I want to come over with my 15 year old son by car.

Only the watermarked pictures on the site www.elaphedione.nl are our own Diones. The other pictures are “stolen” from the Internet, that’s why I put below Van (=from) Internet.
Is it all right that I use your photos of this special coloured Diones on my site, of course I shall mentioned your name (IA) with them?

Will you, and Terry C., Terry P. also, send me your personal e-mail address? Please send it to wimvandebelt@yahoo.com, thank a lot. Is Terry P. also living in the USA.

Greetings from Gidi & Wim van de Belt.
Dione site (Dutch)

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Hello Wim,

I think that Timo will visit us in spring, but i ask about his arriving.

I do not have personal collection yet, but all my exotarium groups is only my responsibility. You can buy our diones and other snakes that you wish (we have many snakes, but i must ask about this details. This question is not in my competention, but i dont think that it is easy. Our customs have really ugly people.

It is possible, we regularly send some animals to other country. This i know exactly and i think that you can bring back to Netherlands snakes that you wish buy. At least if Timo do this, why you can't?

Results of this breeding season is very unclear yet. All of females is gravid, but they can bring unfertile eggs or simple dissolve it, as they do in last season. First cluth will be laid over two weeks or more.

If you will visit us you must send email to Exotarium adress rept@tula.ne t (i.e. .net) with you wish. Our departament of international links will answer you about details of your travel, hotel and etc. I will ask about this detail too, but you must officially announce you wish. I will be glad to see you in Exotarium.

I'm very sorry, but i can't give you permission to using fotos of my dione. I will create web-site about this species and you may put links on posted on it fotos or post foto with link on my site. Site will be appear in next several days.

I send you my adress.

You have nice site. Foto of Nigrita from Tula is white striped Melanistic. I have question about Striped T1.JPG, where you get this foto?
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Hi Wim -
I live in the western United States; California to be more specific. I have several diones that I got from Terry Cox, Rick Cunningham, and Chad Fuchs. I've only had them the last couple years. I really like diones so I have several different bloodlines. The more I learn abut them, the more I would like to keep them and enjoy them. Ivan has shown me a lot of things with the pictures he posted on here the other day. Here's a pic of one of my South Koreans that I got from Terry Cox.

Terry Parks