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Elaphe guttata / Elaphe taeniura

BenSambrook Mar 13, 2004 05:02 PM

Hi guys

I am in the process of deciding what species of snake I would like to get next. I have never kept any of the Elaphe species but really like the snakes and wondered what you guys thought would be better for a starter to this area - a Corn / Red Rat Snake (probably would be a Carolina) or a Taiwan Beauty. I love the look of Elaphe taeniura (can't seem to do itallics) but I seemed to be under the impression that Asian Rat Snakes can be very aggressive - is the Taiwan Beauty an exception. I am not new to snakes in general, just this wonderful species! I have a BP at the moment and one of the reasons I fancy one of the above as I believe that they are active day and night.

Any help would be appreciated

Kind regards
Ben Sambrook
Birmingham, England.

Replies (7)

stevefounduk Mar 13, 2004 05:59 PM

From what I have heard Ben, Taiwan's "can" have a nasty temper, but then they can also be perfectly OK. Black rats have the same reputation but mine is a complete kitten.

The main thing you want to watch out for really is the size. Corns max out at about 5 feet, Taiwans about 8 feet and like cooler temps (around 75F... Not a problem in the UK is it )... so a most of the choice depends on how much room you have.

Sorry, probably teaching you how to suck eggs here.

Steve.

redmoon Mar 13, 2004 10:20 PM

a corn, but I'm biased. I have 6 of them, and I love them. They're great snakes.

Matt Campbell Mar 13, 2004 11:22 PM

Hello,

I have an Ocotee Phase Corn and two Taiwanese Stripe-tailed Rat Snakes (also called Beauty snakes). First of all a point of technicality - the Taiwans are technically no longer considered Elaphe, although that may depend on who you're talking to. There are a couple of very interesting and convincing papers out that make a good case for splitting the Asian rat snakes off from the rest of the Elaphe. That being said, should you chose to go with the new taxonomy the new genus and species for the Taiwans is Orthriophis taeniurus friesi. Interestingly one of the papers I'm speaking of also reclassifies the Corn Snake under an older genus name. It's now referred to as Panterophis guttata should you choose to accept that taxonomy.

Okay, now that that's out of the way, the two snakes are like night and day. I've found my Corn and other corns I've known to be mostly crepuscular (i.e. active at dawn and dusk), while the Taiwans can be active virtually any time of day or night. Corns tend to be smallish snakes rarely getting any longer than about 6' as adults whereas the Taiwans are one of the longest species of colubrids there is. Expect to have adult Taiwans that approach 8' to 9' feet routinely. Some accounts seem to indicate they can even be as long as 10'!

The body profiles of the two snakes are different as well. Corns seem to be (in cross section) about as wide as they are tall, whereas the Taiwans are taller than they are wide which is usually indicative of highly arboreal species. In addition to their body profile, Taiwans have a very long and highly prehensile tail and given a tall cage with ample climbing opportunities will often seek out the higher spots. Corns will climb as well given the chance but more often will restrict themselves to the ground level of a cage.

As far as captive conditions go they are very similar. I would disagree with most everyone who says the Taiwans need to be kept cooler. There is apparently only one source out there that mentions they need to be kept cooler than other ratsnakes and if anything that is more related to the keeping of the Orthriophis ridleyi or Cave Racer, which chiefly inhabits the cooler confines of caves where it stays near the openings and catches bats as they come and go. The rest of the island of Taiwan is very temperate and for the most part mimics the weather patterns we see throughout most of the central U.S.

The last couple years using weather.com I've monitored the weather conditions in Taiwan and have found that at least in the summer time they have weather fairly consisent with my own weather (Chicago, IL) as far as temps, rainfall, etc. goes. So, in closing I'd also add that in my experience neither species is particularly aggressive and in fact neither of mine have given me an cause for complaint. Both genera have been docile and easily handled.

To conclude: Corn snake = smaller hardy staple, easily cared for, active not wildly so. Taiwan = very large, highly active, difficult to accomodate considering potential massive adult size, but fantastic in terms of just being one heck of a snake. (guess I'm a bit biased - I really do like my Taiwans more than my Corn, but don't tell her I said so).
-----
Matt Campbell
Animal Keeper, Small Mammal/Reptile House
Lincoln Park Zoo Chicago, Illinois

Assistant Curator
Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, Illinois

Millionpoundbomb Mar 14, 2004 11:10 AM

What do you reccomend keeping the temps at for taiwans? My pair is so hardy, they are fine whatever heat they are on. My herp room stays at 77-78 usually all the time. Then I have heating pads on the tanks for the taiwans. My female is close to 7ft, my male is only 5ft. I have heard of the cooler temps, but I agree with you on how that article relates more on the cave rats.

In to the post above. I had 5 corn snakes, they are beautiful, and handable, and hardy, and easy to feed, and blah, and blah, and get very boring...(no offense to corn people). I think they are a great beginner's snake. If you have had snakes before and do not mind accomadating such a large animal... go for a taiwan all the way. I like to think a taiwan is actually just a 9ft corn snake.... Start up from a baby, and these things MOVE! They are really ones for staying in one spot, ever. But, such is there nature.
-----
Starkey
2.2 Colombian Boa Constrictors
1.1 Amazon Tree Boas
1.1 Taiwan Beauty Snakes
1.0 Jungle Carpet Python
0.0.1 California King
0.0.1 White's Tree Frog
B.O.A. INC.
Looking for articles on Boa Constrictor Constrictor and Imperator and Varanus.

BenSambrook Mar 14, 2004 01:46 PM

Thanks for the info guys.

I have been to look at an CB 02 Taiwan Beauty at a pet shop today and I think that is what I will go with. I need to do a bit more research first as I cannot find too many care sheets on the net and the only book I have on Rats only covers American Rat Snakes.

Any more info you guys could give would be great - e.g. Brummation temps. I have read about this but no info has been given on temps. Also difference between day and night temps.

Space is not a problem. The snake I looked at today was around about 4 foot approx. but what size vivariums do you guys usually use once they get to adult size? I have read that they are adept climbers and like to explore branches etc., do you guys find this? Lastly humidity, I keep my BP at around 60% but seem to recall seeing that you do not need so much humidity with the Taiwan Beautys.

Many thanks again
Ben Sambrook
Birmingham, England

BenSambrook Mar 14, 2004 01:55 PM

If I was to get a 4ft Taiwan would I be OK to put it in a large vivarium from the beginning (to suit its potential adult size). I ask as obviously BP's and some other snakes can become quite stressed I believe if they are given too much space. I would rather be able to buy a viv which will suit an adult from the start but if this is not the best way I will buy a smaller size viv while it grows.

Cheers

Ben Sambrook
Birmingham, England.

lolaophidia Mar 15, 2004 07:20 AM

A 4 foot Taiwan should do well in a large cage. These snakes are definitely climbers, so a cage that has good height with some objects to climb on would be well utilized. For temps- I've kept mine with 70-75F ambient and 85 for the hot spot using under tank heat for the past 10 years. I've never brumated my Taiwans, they continued to feed year round. As far as humidity, my cages range around 40-60%. My Taiwans have never had a problem shedding and will soak in a large enough water bowl as needed. In my experience, Taiwans have a very strong feeding response so I recommend using tongs from the begining to offer prey items to avoid possible feeding related bites. Other than during feeding time, handling isn't a problem- though these are very strong snakes for their size so they are quite a handful (mine's about 7.5' so really 2 handfuls!). Good luck!
Lora

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