Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I like to consider myself a professional veiled chameleon breeder. I purchased some 3 month old veiled chameleons from someone in California to raise up for new breeders. But every since I've had them, I've had nothing but problems. Some of them are runted & others can only open one eye. I've been doing VCs for years & have never had this much trouble with any of my own. Could these new ones I purchased possibly be the result of that guy crossing the same bloodline?
Thanks for any input,
Cricket

I recently purchased 2 male veileds of diff bloodlines (ones orange sunburst ones blue phase) The ones growing like a weed and the other wont at all. Both have identical cage set ups, both have identical heat and humidity, just one wont grow. I am beginning to suspect that my orange sunburst may be showing problems due to inbreeding as well. This is just a thought, not sure yet. I am taking him to the vet for fecal and a checkup this week. Its getting rediculous with the not growing. I could use some more info on this subject as well. It would help me to narrow the possibilities.
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2.0.0 Veiled Chameleons (Eros & Himeros)
1.1.0 Senegal Chameleons (Francois & Fifi)
0.0.1 Pigmy leaf Chameleon (Franklin)
1.0.0 Sandfire red/gold Beardie (Whitey Ford)
0.1.0 Brown Basilisk (Leroy, I know shes a girl!)
0.0.1 Chinese Water Dragon (Maggie May)
0.0.1 Marbled Gecko (Chalmers)
1.0.0 15 year old Eastern Box Turtle (Radar)

Coming soon
Female Bearded dragon names Sissy from the Mid Michigan reptile rescue. I pick her up on Saturday the 13th!

Thanks for responding to my post. I do most of my own fecal exams & so far, all these from Cal. have been clean. It's when I find something questionable that I take another sample to the vet.
Anyway, too many people are selling babies from the same clutch as a pair with no regard to the future. Most people who purchase pairs have some intention of eventually breeding them.
I'm just wondering if the ones that I purchased were the result from such a sale.
I breed lots of veileds. I keep records & labels on every one of them. I know who the parents are, and I have special codes that let me know who's related. This prevents me from making any foolish mistakes.
I've had these new ones for 'bout a month now, and I've seen no improvement at all. I house them like the rest of my animals and their care is the same. But now I wish that I'd never gotten them at all. I'll be scared to breed the ones that do make it. I don't need any genetic defects in my babies. And I can't resell them to someone else because I know that somethings definitely wrong with them.
Cricket

I think we're too quick to blame inbreeding when husbandry is a more likely source of most problems. How experienced is the brreder/supplier of these babies? Mternal nutrition can significantly affect the health of the babies.

Of course, this doesn't mean that inbreeding isn't part or even all of the problem. I just think that too often we use inbreeding as a cheap, easy excuse not to examine our (in this case, breeder's) husbandry. Besides, you'ver got to figure that a breeder who would inbreed to any significant extent is also likely to be lax in husbandry!
Ed

I don't know how much experience the guy had. But I do know that he supplies some of the biggest distributors with veileds. I got his name & phone # from a friend of mine that works at one of these major companies. I don't want to point my finger at a specific name or person. That's why I was inquiring on the forum for others opinions. Maybe he made a mistake & crossed the bloodline somehow without realizing it. I don't know. That's why I asked.
But thanks for your input. And in a way you're right. It could be poor husbandry, but I doubt it.
Cricket

>>I don't know how much experience the guy had. But I do know that he supplies some of the biggest distributors with veileds. I got his name & phone # from a friend of mine that works at one of these major companies. I don't want to point my finger at a specific name or person. That's why I was inquiring on the forum for others opinions. Maybe he made a mistake & crossed the bloodline somehow without realizing it. I don't know. That's why I asked.
>> But thanks for your input. And in a way you're right. It could be poor husbandry, but I doubt it.
>> Cricket

I have to agree with Ed. A lot of the potential inbreeding signs can also show up due to environment or even a combination of the two. It could be very possible that the breeder was careing for his animals incorrectly, incubating incorrectly or inbreeding (or any combination). As far as accidental inbreeding and inbreeding prevention, feel free to take a look at the Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD) linked below as it can potentially help to avoid this.
Chris
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tracking Database (CCBTD)

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Chris Anderson
parsonii_hoehnelii@hotmail.com
Chameleon Care and Information Center (CCIC) - http://www.geocities.com/ccicenter/
Chameleons Online E-zine - http://www.chameleonnews.com/
Captive Chameleon Bloodline Tacking Database - http://www.chameleondatabase.com/