Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can someone (Ivan, Terry P, Terry C.) tell us what kind of Dione (see the picture) this is (almost sloughing). We bought him as a China, but he is has a starting Striped pattern, so whe are not so sure. Striped / China /Korean/ Striped China???

If you can not see the picture, see our site:
http://www.elaphedione.nl/Diones/Foto pagina's/China foto's.htm
The two pictures with "Is this a China or Korean or a starting Striped?"

Dione site (Dutch)

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Snakes on first foto is Chinensis, they have brownish stripe with reddish blotching. On other two fotos is striped dione. Korean dione, that is very similiar with chinensis, but very dark.
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Wim, I think everything on your China page is from China, including the dark ones, with stripes forming, at the bottom. It is difficult to come to definate conclusions from just photos (one angle), but I will post some pics we can compare to, so we can guess to the locality. All the dione have some tendency to form the stripes, but some much more so than others. The Chinese can form the stripes also, especially ones from more northerly locations, in my opinion. I think some of yours are from northern China and could also be from northern Korea.

One reason I don't like to cross localities is because it will lead to a generic dione with no locality data. Hopefully, you are not looking at any crosses made in captivity. There are natural crosses in the wild also, probably where n. China and North Korea meet. These would have characteristics of both the Chinese and Korean dione.

Here are some of my pics of the "Seoul City" South Korean Dione's ratsnakes. Go to the gallery to look at comments on color/pattern, etc.
Here's a juvenile about six months old...

A group of the babies from the original w/c parents, 2001...

This is a "high yellow" baby Central Chinese Dione's Ratsnake..the result of captive breeding and selection at work...

This is a light colored South Korean Dione's Ratsnake baby (2001). It has a light dorsal stripe, but much narrower than the central Chinese dione...

This has been a good discussion of the Elaphe dione and the new photos are a great addition to our site. Most of my photos I've shown before, but I'm posting them for comparison purposes and hope they help...

TC

Ratsnake Haven Gallery

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Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.

Hello Terry,

Those are nice pictures.
About you question. NO we do not want to crossbreed with our collection! Especially not. We want to breed on locality, this is which is the reason we try to find out everything about Diones. Alter the discussion with you Teery P and Ivan we know a lot more, more about the different kind of names, locality and collour/patterns.

Ivan wrote: “On other two foto’s is striped dione”.
So, I am not sure, a Striped without locality, a China striped (with locality), no Striped at all. When I have more pictures from more angles I will send them to Kingsnake.com/you.

Ivan send me his e-mail address, we mailed today again, about visiting Tula. Will you give me you’re e-mail for me, please send it to wimvandebelt@yahoo.com, thanks.

How do you put a picture in your mail/answer/message? I cannot, copying/past does not work with me.

Greetings and till next time, Wim.
Dione site (Dutch)

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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Hi Wim, I'm going to respond in text...

>>Hello Terry,
>>
>>Those are nice pictures.
>>About you question. NO we do not want to crossbreed with our collection! Especially not. We want to breed on locality, this is which is the reason we try to find out everything about Diones. Alter the discussion with you Teery P and Ivan we know a lot more, more about the different kind of names, locality and collour/patterns.
>>

That's good. What kind of info did the breeders/dealers give you?

>>Ivan wrote: “On other two foto’s is striped dione”.
>>So, I am not sure, a Striped without locality, a China striped (with locality), no Striped at all. When I have more pictures from more angles I will send them to Kingsnake.com/you.
>>

Thanks. China is a big place. There are several different populations in China. It's hard to tell what part of China w/o locality data. Even central China is very large, so it is not really good locality info. China might have several ssps. inhabiting the country. We can say, "Central China", but that's just a guess w/o any supporting info from the breeders/dealers.

I think Ivan is talking about a common name or color phase, not a locality. I think the stripers are Chinese, but there would be no exact locality. Any locality could have a striped phase, but especially central and northern China, and probably northern Korea and se. Siberia.

>>Ivan send me his e-mail address, we mailed today again, about visiting Tula. Will you give me you’re e-mail for me, please send it to wimvandebelt@yahoo.com, thanks.
>>

If you click on my name at the top of the post you can send me an e-mail.

>>How do you put a picture in your mail/answer/message? I cannot, copying/past does not work with me.
>>
>>Greetings and till next time, Wim.
>>Dione site (Dutch)
>>
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>>Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

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Terry

Terry,

striped dione come not only from China, they also origin from Altai and nearest region. And this pattern variation can be breed if cross Chinensis and Tenebrosa dione. Hatchling will be 100% striped.

I create site with some fotos of our dione. Visit it at link http://www.edione.narod.ru
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Ivan,

Thanks for making a site for your photos. They are very interesting. There were a few that I couldn't download, however...the dark future pic, the orange snake from breedings, the tenebrosa with chess-like pattern, and the melanistic dione from Mozdok.

The tenebrosa snakes are really nice, as well as the melanistic and patternless. Hope you can come to Daytona in August, so some of your offspring can make it to the U. S.

Regards,

TC

Thanks, i correct all errors.

The tenebrosa snakes are really nice, as well as the melanistic and patternless. Hope you can come to Daytona in August, so some of your offspring can make it to the U. S.

I'm sorry, but i cant come to Daytona. This is impossible for me, live in Russia is very different than EU or USA, i dont have money for such travel.

Thanks,
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

Ivan,

Thank you for updating all your pictures. I really enjoyed seeing the new morphs and localities.

I'm sorry you can't come to the Daytona show. I wish we could do something to help you get here.

I have just finished reading the article, "Venomous Snakes of Southern China", in the European magazine, "Reptilia", number 31, that just came out. This is co-authored by your boss, Mr. Ryabov, correct? What an excellent article about the venomous snakes of the Tonkin Region of Asia!

It says that some of the info is based on observations at Tula Exotarium. That means someone gets to work with these snakes. That would be fortunate. I think that part of Asia is the most herpetologically interesting in the world. Ivan, you have a great place to work. If I can help you and Mr. Ryabov with your work in any way, I would be happy to try.

I will send you an e-mail later also.

Regards,

Terry

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Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.

>Thank you for updating all your pictures. I really enjoyed seeing the new morphs and localities.
I hope that in nearest future i do some addition. I dont have fotos of several striped dione with different coloration, some very light specimen and one very attractive (at least for me cherry-colored female from Far East. I hope that i can get its foto soon.

>I'm sorry you can't come to the Daytona show. I wish we could do something to help you get here.
I think we cant do anything, this is impossible for me (but not for Sergey Ryabov, i think) - i have dont money and my english is very poor. I have no practice in talking and, if i visit show, cant understand other people and talk with they.

>I have just finished reading the article, "Venomous Snakes of >Southern China", in the European magazine, "Reptilia", number >31, that just came out. This is co-authored by your boss, Mr. >Ryabov, correct? What an excellent article about the venomous >snakes of the Tonkin Region of Asia!
Yes, Sergey Ryabov (you right, he is my boss) is one of biggest specialists in herpetofauna of SE Asia. We have many venomous species from this region (at least two laboratories) and one of our herpetologist study they reproductive biology and some other field of theyr live.

Yes, we have great place to work. But this place may crush every day Our building is very old (more than 100 years old!), but goverments dont care about us.

Thanks for your offer, i must think about it. I dont know, what you can do for us? We badly require literature (magazines and books), but we cant buy it. Almost all e-shops dont work with Russia. Do you know, how we may subscribe?
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Ivan Arinin
ICQ 151665951
E.g. guttata Normal 2.3
E.g. guttata Albino 2.4
E.g. guttata Oketee 2.0
E.g. guttata Hypo Oketee 1.1
E.g. guttata Albino Okeetee 2.2
E.g. guttata Ghost 2.3
E.g. guttata Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Albino Motley 2.2
E.g. guttata Anerythristic 2.2
E.g. guttata Snow 2.4
E.g. guttata Creamsicle 2.1
E.g. rosacea 2.2
E.g. emoryi 2.2

E. persica black 3.4
E. persica brown 2.1
E. longissima 4.6
E. situla 3.3
E. dione 54
E. bimaculata 4.3
E. quatourlineata 10.15

E. o. obsoleta yellow 2.2
E. o. lindheimeri White Sided 2.2.
E. o. lindheomeri Leucistic 1.2
E. o. lindheimeri Black Orange 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata 1.3
E. o. quatourlineata Deckerti 2.2
E. o. quatourlineata Williamsi 1.0
E. o. rossalleni 2.2

Langaha madagascariensis 2.1.12
Cylindrophis ruffus 0.1
Enhydris plumbea 1.0

You mean this picture..

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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Yes,

do you know what kind it is???
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Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

>>Yes,
>>
>>do you know what kind it is???
>>-----
>>Greeting from Wim (www.elaphedione.nl), Amsterdam.

Nee sorry Wim,

Niet gehinderd door enige kennis van zaken. Ik liet alleen even zien hoe je je eigen foto's kunt tonen hier.
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Marcel Poots (Holland)
'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield