Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,
I’m looking for as much information I can to avoid my Rats and Mice eating there young.
I have just started breeding a couple months ago but have noticed more times than not, that if left in with the mom’s long enough, the babies will get eaten. If left in with males and females it’s a guarantee slaughter. I thought what I would do to relieve the problem was to remove the pregnant females to one enclosure to let them have their babies in quiet but she still ate them. Females would fight one on one as well on occasion and the pups be ignored or scattered till she decided to eat them. For now I have a big female ready to drop any moment and she is totally alone so I am keeping a watch on her. I freeze the rat pups and pinkie mice no problem but I have a lot of variety in the size of the reptiles I am trying to feed so I need to be getting them up in size a lot of times. I just haven’t had the results in getting them up in size yet. I still continue to read what has been posted here and check the archives but would really appreciate a punch list of do’s and don’ts so I can better produce rodents of various sizes.

One other quick question is it safe to remove rat pups or pinkies one by one or does this just stress out the female too much? In other words I take say 3 of perfect size for a small Boa and then leave the other to grow a bit larger for a juvenile Python etc. I tried it once but fed them off so quick there wasn’t a way to gauge if the mom got stressed out too much loosing a few at a time rather than me just taking them all at once. My guess is once you disrupt the nest its over and I should probably just take them all or none.
Would that be correct for the most part?
Thanks Steve

>>Hi,
>>I’m looking for as much information I can to avoid my Rats and Mice eating there young.
>>I have just started breeding a couple months ago but have noticed more times than not, that if left in with the mom’s long enough, the babies will get eaten. If left in with males and females it’s a guarantee slaughter. I thought what I would do to relieve the problem was to remove the pregnant females to one enclosure to let them have their babies in quiet but she still ate them. Females would fight one on one as well on occasion and the pups be ignored or scattered till she decided to eat them. For now I have a big female ready to drop any moment and she is totally alone so I am keeping a watch on her. I freeze the rat pups and pinkie mice no problem but I have a lot of variety in the size of the reptiles I am trying to feed so I need to be getting them up in size a lot of times. I just haven’t had the results in getting them up in size yet. I still continue to read what has been posted here and check the archives but would really appreciate a punch list of do’s and don’ts so I can better produce rodents of various sizes.
>>
>>One other quick question is it safe to remove rat pups or pinkies one by one or does this just stress out the female too much? In other words I take say 3 of perfect size for a small Boa and then leave the other to grow a bit larger for a juvenile Python etc. I tried it once but fed them off so quick there wasn’t a way to gauge if the mom got stressed out too much loosing a few at a time rather than me just taking them all at once. My guess is once you disrupt the nest its over and I should probably just take them all or none.
>>Would that be correct for the most part?
>>Thanks Steve

First...be sure you always have water available. Then, be sure you are feeding high enough protein....mice I go to 25-30% with high protein dog kibble or cat kibble sometimes added. Rats I aim for 5% or so lower, depending on the animals condition and if they are raising a bigger litter.
That is the first things to check.
Some folks here move thier rats to separate enclosures to give birth, I don't. I might take out the male if I don't want the girls bred right back, but not moving everyone. My rats help raise litters....though sometimes personalitys clash in first moms and more dominant girls swipe all the pups.
With mice you don't move anyone, EVER. Set up a breeding group and leave it alone. Mice will cannabalize if you check on them every other minute. Mice will cannabalize if they are first time moms or if the male is moved or if a new mouse is introduced or if they feel like it (it seems) So, with mice you set up a group and leave it go. You may see a mom that is about to pop eat a litter of another. Usually it is a first time thing and settles down. It may help to give them a box (mac and cheese/tissue/ anything that fits) for them to litter in. More security.
I personally tend to take pups as I need them until they get weaned or to the size I need most...then I take them out. If you are fast and distract the moms with treats or something they generally don't know or care.
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Sonya

Haven't we warned you about tampering with the structure of a chaotic system?
Mrs. Neutron

I've never had rats eat their young, but I imagine that mice and rats would be similar in what follows. If they are eating their young due to immaturity, time is the cure. Poor food quality or lack of water, you can fix. The biggest cause of mice cannibalizing their young is stress. I see some folks trying to breed mice in tanks. Those are too open and expose the mice to the outside world. I keep mine in plastic trays with metal screen tops, dark corner of the basement, never mess with them unless it is cleaning day, which is when I pull some out for feeders, I keep about half of the creen top covered with food. Mice are close to the bottom of the food chain. They know it. This is probably why they stress so easily. Can you think of some things that you can do to lower their stress levels?

Good luck
Denver Tom

Dogs, cats, birds, snakes... even human beings would stress out if they weren't used to being around humans, noises, lights, etc., etc. That's why pets and people are socialized (hopefully) while they are young so they won't... act like mice (so to speak). With this in mind I only thought it logicial to use this same theory on my mice and got them used to me so that their existance with me would be less stressful. My 25 colonies are a mere 5 feet from my kitchen so they hear all kinds of noises, see lights going on and off, and I'm in there several times a day, and night, checking on one thing or another. I've had them in aquariums before I got the tubs and they did great in both. They all run up to the front of the cage asking for treats while I'm in there and some will even eat from my hand. Most let me pet them when I have the time, and one would even jump into my hand and crawl up my arm. They don't even seem to mind when I reach in to take pups right off the nipple. I've even helped them whelp at times when the pups were coming too fast for them to keep up with the cleaning. The only time I started having trouble was when I tried leaving them alone. I guess they missed me. LOL. Anyway, my method isn't for everyone though because you have to be consistant with it, and I could imagine that most people have better things to do than to hang out with a bunch of mice.

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MissHisssss