Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Couldn't get back to the forum until late wednesday...

for jyohe: parthenogenesis has been documented in a Burmese python, Brahminy Blind snake, Elephant Trunk snake, Garter snake, and rattlesnake that I'm aware of. My case in the BP would be considered undocumented as far as publication is concerned, but it did happen. My female was with another BP about nine years' previously, but the other BP could have been a female. In any case there never was any breeding observed during the week or 2 they were together.

The case of the ghost BP is pretty strong evidence of sperm storage of approx 1 years' duration. That's pretty cool.

The policy of using virgin females is good, but what are you going to do in subsequent years, dedicate the females to the particular males? What if you lose/sell a male?

Anyways...interesting topic!

Scott J. Michaels DVM

I did not know that balls do this to. I always worry about that in my boas. Here’s an example one year I breed a het for albino to a het for albino, she did not take. The next year I breed an albino to the het for albino. And get babies. How do you know for sure that the sire of the litter was just the albino? What if the het for albino and the albino are both the sires of the litter from the female retaining sperm for the het from the following year, making all the normals in the litters 66% het for albino.

James W. Arnold

well.....to start with ..I know who you are and how smart you are...no problems with you Scott.......

(but I still do not believe in miracle births in most snakes....
now that blind snake would be an oddball....and oddballs don't play by the rules at times...)......*

I realize you and others believe....I also realize then that ALL het and possible hets are not worth squat........

I use virgins....then yes..use the same males year after year.....I still breed alot of normal balls...and use multiple males..just to let them "vent" ....I have 5 normal males to get rid of.......

in future years......the hets and normals that bred a morph would be bred to others of same morph......(as in ghost to all het females not het to hets.......het male goes out the door then).*

....anyways......it's cool......until god slaps me.......I don't really know he exsists either.........

sorry....Jesus was real...but human.......and all books on it are written by humans..and we all know how full of it they are.....especially the scholars...and "holy men"......they pad the story as they pad their wallets.......

**all views mine....have fun...good luck.......

JY

HEY, I'm not smart just educated. If I were the former I wouldn't make some of the mistakes I've made!

But you said you didn't believe in 'miracle' births in MOST snakes...so you DO admit it can happen. Just bare in mind that most cases of parthenogenesis are due to alterations in miosis of egg cells, whereby the egg gamete is diploid (not the normal haploid), and is stimulated to divide by, for example, environmental cues (ie ideal conditions, adequate fat reserves, etc.). So parthenogenesis is explainable, whereas miracles are not.

One of my mistakes was not documenting my BP's parthenogenesis.

Anyways, good luck with breeding this year!

SJM

PS - I not going near the religion stuff!!

.......I know it happens in at least one lizard species...and aphids I guess.......like I said....there is always an exception to every rule......or the 2 mammals wouldn't lay eggs.....which is really nasty if you think about it...but then again...so is a baby kangaroo with no hind legs........anyways......

yes....little stuff like worm snake.......or other small odd stuff.....who knows.......

as for the "good fat reserves"....?....snakes also don't breed when too fat...........so it goes either way.......*(I know..most do breed but are just too fat to have fertilization be any good due to excess fat deposits not allowing enough room for the eggs to move freely and gather sperm.....or even too fat to even hold any sperm suppliy?.......(been there alot here).....

........

.........hey.....miracles........anything may be possible....I get whole litters of chinese hamsters running around my basement...yet no adults out.......and my dog can tell time.......even my boss thinks I can do 3 forklift jobs....with no lift truck.......?.......go figure.........

JY.......

oh...breedings...yes.....probably get a couple batches of het albino balls.....poss hets......maybe ? an albino?.......maybe a ghost or so......?......can't tell them all yet.....and a bunch of normals......still, have 2 huge females that quit on me....layed for years....now stopped last year....no eggs and hardly eating.....same this year......I think they want a new cage........

........you still a vet?......and sell all that stuff from cage liners on up?.........breed alot?..any balls???....

have fun....good luck.......

Jeffrey

Still a vet and pharmacist but work in the pharmaceutical business...other than FLEX-WATT and DRIPPERS (and snakes) I'm out of the dry-goods business...I may start reselling liners in the future, but storage and packaging were difficult issues in the past...other than Arizona Mtn kings/Knobs/Loxocemus, BP's are where it's at (and boas). With any luck I'll have albinos and 100% hets, Butterscotch ghosts and 100% hets, and maybe a few pastels. Next year Pieds and Hets, and ??. I plan to put this year's proceeds into one new male and maybe a 100% het female or 2. Don't know which morph yet, it depends on the proceeds. If I bomb out, it'll be another female pastel and het female pieds. Probably be somewhere 'in the middle'. SJM