Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi,

I'm currently putting together a 2x2x4 glass viv for a veiled chameleon, I know glass is not looked upon as the best material to use because of airflow but I,ve tried to incorporate a few features to increase this( I build and maintain reef tanks for a living)....basically side panels have been drilled with 10x50mm holes and meshed, I,m also in the process of fitting a dripper system and waterfall feature with external sump system, R/O water will be used in both.

Questions...

1. The idea which I thought may also benefit airflow is to incorporate a external airpump fed to a spraybar to provide a gentle movement of air, will this cause any problems?

2. Can sand be used as a suitable substrate?

3. Planning to use 2x15w repti glow 5.0's for UV requirements, will it be benefical to add another 5.0 or 8.0?

Any advice will be appreciated, I,m not getting my cham till I'm sure I can provide him with the best of homes....

Airflow is not the only reason that glass should be avoided.

Chameleons don't understand glass as a surface, and will butt up against it and paw at the corners, trying to get through it tirelessly. This will cause great stress on them, and stress kills.

Also, many experts agree that a Chameleon can see it's reflection in the glass and think it's another Chameleon, causing territorial behavior and even more stress. Veileds are violently aggressive towards each other, and just the site of another Chameleon makes them crazy.

Glass also traps heat and will cook your Chameleon if you're not careful. I hate to say it, but glass really is a terrible idea.

Also, no substrate should be used. A bare plexiglass or plastic floor is best. Paper towels can be used if they are changed frequently.

Also, don't use a waterfall. Even when the water is filtered they are not a good idea, as tempting as they are. All you need is misting and a dripper.

I know it's tempting to want to create the perfect naturalistic paradise like you can for other herps, but with Chameleons, SIMPLER is better. That is the thing to remember. There is a reason why successful keepers use cages and no substrate. Not trying tp be discouraging, just speaking from experience. I tried my first Jackson's in a tank 9 years ago and it was not good. The stress almost killed him before I realized what was going on. He would constantly pace and paw at the glass like he was insane. In cages, they will calm down and behave normally.

Best of luck.

I was going to reply but didn't know how to explain the wrongs about that set-up, and jacksonsrule explained it well, good job. About the simplicity of a cage set-up, he is right. The onlt thing you should make complex should be the canopy fof plants (don't crowd the cage) and if you use automativ timers for lights and misters, that can get complicted. for one chameleon, stick to the basics! Think of leopard geckoes, they live VERY happily in plastic shoe boxes with paper towel as a substrate, and very little cage decoration!

Best of luck with the set-up!

Thanks for the replys and I do take it all onboard but I must add that 3 sides of the viv will be covered in cork bark sheets, I did understand about the stress the reflections can cause and should have mentioned this!!!!!!

Why would the slow moving waterfall be such a bad idea?

Do you not think with the extra ventilation and air feeds that it would be viable?

Yeah, the cork bark sides should help quite a bit.

As for the waterfall, as long as you can keep it extra clean, and there is absolutely no way he can drown, then if you want to try it, give it a shot.

Funny story...
The one and only time I have ever used a waterfall, about 6 years ago, I made this great little system where the water flowed over a tower of rocks and was filtered in a collection basin under the rocks using one of those Duetto filters.
[this was before the cheesy waterfalls in the stores were available] The tube came up behind the rocks and up over the top. He could drink from the tube or off of the rocks. The water basin was covered by a section of bird cage bars, and the rock tower sat up on the bars. It worked great for a while, until my little jackass Chameleon decided he need to make a point to crap directly into the waterfall every day without exception. He liked to wake up, stroll over to the watefall, have his drink and take a dump right into the water every day. I'm totally serious. Like it was his toilet. I tried covering the bars with fake plants, but ot just looked silly and was too much trouble. I got tired of fighting and got rid of it. Plus, most of the crickets would immediately commit suicide by drowning in the waterfall.

Don't be surprised if he does a lot of pacing/butting against the glass front.
They just don't see glass as a barrier and will try forever to get through it.

It sounds to me that you are trying to create vivarium for display in your home. When thinking of this and seeing chameleons as an option and then seeing their care requirements, it's natural to try to make it work without sacrificing the beauty of your vivarium.
I am in no way trying to turn you away from chameleons, chameleons fair the best in probably some of the ugliest of enclosures. The most aestheticly pleasing enclosures I have seen are the Chameleons Canopys or Condos or whatever they're called now. However these open enclosures have a number of disadvantages too. I personally have never had one of these enclosures but I've heard of their drawbacks from other keepers. If you are wanting a nice looking enclosure for your home, I would say this would be your best bet.
I would just urge you to stay away from glass. The cork panels may help in decreasing stress, but airflow may still be a problem. Chameleons are beautiful animals and a treat for anyone who gets the chance to own one, but they are just not made for display in glass vivariums.
Hope this helps in your decision,
Cory

Jacksonsrule said it all. I have a show tank, a 120 gallon aquaterrarium in my kitchen. It contains everything EXCEPT chameleons. Chams are simply too delicate to sacrifice their needs for aesthetics. The waterfall's a bad idea. The glass is a bad idea. The substrate is a bad idea. There are some beautiful set ups in wood & screen cages. Go for one of those.
Ed

Thanks again for the replys, basically if it was my choice I would have a screened cage, but my girlfriend can't get her head around the idea of letting the cham's insect food into the house unless theres glass panels between them and her...trust me I've tried every argument!!!!!

True..... I did want to make a pretty viv but only if it was benefical to the cham living in it...again regarding the waterfall feature, I was going to build a glass stepper system filled with pebbles(so there no chance of drowning) with a external sump for easy maintenace.

If there's no chance a cham can be kept happily in a glass fronted viv basically I won't do it, if you understood the complexity's of reef keeping and the time and care I spend on them you would realise I'm not the kind of person that would wish any harm on any captive kept creature...

alby wrote "If there's no chance a cham can be kept happily in a glass fronted viv basically I won't do it, if you understood the complexity's of reef keeping and the time and care I spend on them you would realise I'm not the kind of person that would wish any harm on any captive kept creature."

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were uncaring. I' too, have always prided myself on the aesthetics of my terraria, aquaria & palludaria and I know the allure. I'm embarrassed to admit it nut I bought my first cham because I thought it would look so cool in my big palludarium. The cham paid the price for my aesthetic hubris.

As for your girlfriend's fears: A good screen cage lets you free range prey without more than a minimal number of escapes. FWIW, my wife has a morning ritual. She gets up before I do. When I finally get down to the kitchen, I sometimes find plastic deli cups sitting, inverted, on the floor. Under each one is an escaped cricket for me to deal with. Since I've perfected my cages, I now find the deli cups on the floor no more than once a month. She does, however, draw the line at roaches.
Ed