Reptile & Amphibian Forums

That snake is huge but it's not 75" and only 4 lbs.
My 68-69" GA boy is 4.7 lbs on an empty stomach and he's by no means fat. The Terminator was 4.8 lbs when he died and you can see the size of him below - he was 69.5" when the vet measured him after death and this pic was taken 18 months earlier; the tape measure behind me is 5'.

I've got a 62" wc McIntosh GA king I caught and he's 4.1 lbs, so...

I said it before...lets see some accurate measurements. That's a huge snake but either the weight or length is off.

Peace.

-John

well john im sorry you feel "something aint right",but the fact is cleo is 75and1/4inches i measured him in jan.of '04 w/a string i feel confident its an exact measurement as far as weight i dunno i guessed 4lbs i dont have an accurate scale to weigh him i will get it on his next vet visit,peace,,,,, thomas

REGARDLESS OF THE LIL EXACTS OF WEIGHT AND LENGTH.... I HAVE YET TO SEE A BIGGER KING... SOME PLEASE SHOW ME ONE.... BIGGER THAT CLEO THE INDIGO EATER.....LOL.... PE@CE TO ALL.....
Link

This snake passed on a couple of years ago but we got an exact measurment at death of 6'4" and the vet got the weight when it was alive at a little over 7 lbs.

Keith

-----

...until you can show us something where we can get some kind of perspective from which to compare it.

There's one at the Disney nature preserve in Orange Co., FL (TNC's nature preserve) that's a intergrade and that's the largest king I've ever seen. Krysko has seen it and knows exactly what snake I'm talking about. There's also a Florida King there that is 6' with no neck and some serious attitude!

I said it before, put up something to show how large the snake is. They guy holding it could be 5'5" for all we know!

Like Keith said, Mr. Nasty was the same size and weighed nearly 2 times as much so one of the measurements is off, I don't care what you guys say. There's no way an 75" Eastern only weighs 4 lbs unless it's sick - 75" and 4lbs is coachwhip dimensions, not a healthy Eastern King.

The proof is in the pudding...put a scale so we can see how long that bad boy is! Trust me - I want and hope he's that large because I love hearing/seeing about 6.5' Easterns - the Beasts from the East as I like to call them - because my GA boy and my Kevin Enge '00 are easily going to break the 6' mark as long as the live long enough!

When I get back to the area north of Orlando and south of Gainesville I'll go on the hunt for some Kings - I have a 4 year old floridana that I caught in Polk Co back in '00. I think this area where the Florida and Eastern intergrade has some of the largest kings in the wild.

Peace.

-John

John

There was a HUGE Eastern displayed Busch Gardens in Tampa a number of years ago. I remember looking it and thinking it was as thick as medium sized Boa ! It had to be 6' but the girth was the most impressive thing about it and it had a giant buick sized head ta boot. I wonder if its still there as this was back in 1996 or so.

Keith

>>...until you can show us something where we can get some kind of perspective from which to compare it.
>>
>>There's one at the Disney nature preserve in Orange Co., FL (TNC's nature preserve) that's a intergrade and that's the largest king I've ever seen. Krysko has seen it and knows exactly what snake I'm talking about. There's also a Florida King there that is 6' with no neck and some serious attitude!
>>
>>I said it before, put up something to show how large the snake is. They guy holding it could be 5'5" for all we know!
>>
>>Like Keith said, Mr. Nasty was the same size and weighed nearly 2 times as much so one of the measurements is off, I don't care what you guys say. There's no way an 75" Eastern only weighs 4 lbs unless it's sick - 75" and 4lbs is coachwhip dimensions, not a healthy Eastern King.
>>
>>The proof is in the pudding...put a scale so we can see how long that bad boy is! Trust me - I want and hope he's that large because I love hearing/seeing about 6.5' Easterns - the Beasts from the East as I like to call them - because my GA boy and my Kevin Enge '00 are easily going to break the 6' mark as long as the live long enough!
>>
>>When I get back to the area north of Orlando and south of Gainesville I'll go on the hunt for some Kings - I have a 4 year old floridana that I caught in Polk Co back in '00. I think this area where the Florida and Eastern intergrade has some of the largest kings in the wild.
>>
>>Peace.
>>
>>-John
-----

...the biggest Eastern/intergrades from this area are some of the largest kings, either wc or in captivity? Any idea?

It was you or Krysko who told me about that no-neck, nasty-sized snake from Busch Gardens - when I get back to that area I need to see if it still exists. It seems that the largest kings we can accurately verify are Mr. Nasty, and these intergrades from the Orlando area west and s.west towards Tampa and surrounding counties. Interesting that most of the really big kings we are talking about "basically" come from the GA/FL line south in to S. Florida.

I know your monster NJ boy is huge, but in all your work puttin' up your site are most of the biggest kings coming from this area?

-John

If "hybrid vigor"theories hold true,it makes sense that the greatest SIZE would come from this area.With all the different pattern mutations why not SIZE mutations as well??Jeff

What Hybrids would occur in these areas ? I dont think of natural intergrades as hybrids ??? Maybe Im wrong.

Keith
-----

This area just seems like a greater CONFLUENCE of diverse genetic material than other areas.This alone should not influence size....like isolation on an island,but there should be greater DIVERSITY in size as well as pattern wouldnt you think?Jeff

That makes sense in theory, but such ideas are outside of my area of expertise by a long shot...genetics in plants is confusing enough for me!

I would guess that along with a greater species richness for the flora and fauna as a whole in the upper penisula of Florida along with more diverse habitats (as compared to further north), that there would be a more ample, wider range and size of prey items along with a longer period of prey availibility. That being said, over a long period of time these conditions could select for a more diverse range in size for the kings there, from smaller (like in the blotched kings) to the largest.
Just a thought...I'm not an evolutionary biologist and the further you get away from plants the less I know!

Peace.

-John

John

Are you saying that Apalachicola Kings are smaller ? Ive heard of some real monsters out there. Sean said Krysko has a 5 footer (I think he said that) and I know Bill Love used to have some real big ones. I think they can get as big as any Floridana but maybe not as big as some of those Jumbo GA and N FLA Easterns.

Keith

>>That makes sense in theory, but such ideas are outside of my area of expertise by a long shot...genetics in plants is confusing enough for me!
>>
>>I would guess that along with a greater species richness for the flora and fauna as a whole in the upper penisula of Florida along with more diverse habitats (as compared to further north), that there would be a more ample, wider range and size of prey items along with a longer period of prey availibility. That being said, over a long period of time these conditions could select for a more diverse range in size for the kings there, from smaller (like in the blotched kings) to the largest.
>>Just a thought...I'm not an evolutionary biologist and the further you get away from plants the less I know!
>>
>>Peace.
>>
>>-John
-----

I know the snakes Krysko's got...I was on the waiting list before Sean was. They are big but I've yet to see one that approaches a Florida or Eastern by any means. Of course, you've got those blotched X Eastern natural intergrades (as Krysko explained to me) that are somewhat larger.

And what about wc blotched? That's another measuring stick...they don't tend to be the size of Easterns, even from the pics Sean had.

I think that 5' is running the max on them Keith while the max on a Mr. Nasty or Terminator type Easterns can push the 7' barrier. That's a whole lot more snake man! LOL

But like I say, my knowledge of this topic is lame...kinda like your collection LOL Love bustin' your chops Badger Boy!

-John

There just arent that many wild ones to get a good idea of size. Im sure if they were more plentifulwe would know but I got one up to 4' in a little of 2 years once so that kinda tells me they ahve the potential to be big boys as well. Im no Apalachicola expert so maybe Sean can weigh in here.

Keith

P.s. Who you callin Badger Boy ya Hillbilly. lol

>>I know the snakes Krysko's got...I was on the waiting list before Sean was. They are big but I've yet to see one that approaches a Florida or Eastern by any means. Of course, you've got those blotched X Eastern natural intergrades (as Krysko explained to me) that are somewhat larger.
>>
>>And what about wc blotched? That's another measuring stick...they don't tend to be the size of Easterns, even from the pics Sean had.
>>
>>I think that 5' is running the max on them Keith while the max on a Mr. Nasty or Terminator type Easterns can push the 7' barrier. That's a whole lot more snake man! LOL
>>
>>But like I say, my knowledge of this topic is lame...kinda like your collection LOL Love bustin' your chops Badger Boy!
>>
>>-John
-----

im interested to see how big cyclops gets. he's 5 years old, and over 5 1/2 feet. im willing to bet he passes 6 feet easy in the next couple years. and talk about girth(muscle, baby), the south georgia easterns and north florida eastern/florida integrade kings are very bulky. my baby florida king seems to be getting big quick, im excited to see what size it will attain.

i personally have seen a king as big around as a coke can at the chattahoochee nature center in roswell, ga. its supposed to be close to 7 feet, from what im told. i have a crummy pic ill post.

id like to see thomas's snake next to something universal, perhaps the dollar trick or a coke can.

greg

Post that pic ! I would love to see even a bad pic of a really big king lol.

Keith
-----

...this pic is 2 years old, and crappy. the snake is MUCH larger and much THICKER now. i went last week and this boy is growing like a youngster. big around as my forearm, and even though you can barely see it, its head is huge. im going to try and get a shot of me or a keeper at the nature center holding this guy.

WOW ! He looks big. Yes another shot of him would be awesome . Was he a wildcaught ? Any locality data on him ?

Keith

>>...this pic is 2 years old, and crappy. the snake is MUCH larger and much THICKER now. i went last week and this boy is growing like a youngster. big around as my forearm, and even though you can barely see it, its head is huge. im going to try and get a shot of me or a keeper at the nature center holding this guy.
>>
-----

the guy i talked to didnt know much background on him.

ill try andgo back this weekend..

greg

I have a rat crusher from the Okeechobee area (5.5'plus). Don't have an exact age on this guy since he was wild caught. But I've heard that these guys hardly ever eat other snakes in the wild and are primarily fond of rodents??? What do you guys think??? I heard a lot of 6' plus animals come from this area, and that they seem to get quite thick as well. I believe it was Krysko who also told me some stuff about that.
As far as that HUGE eastern is concened: I'll have to go by there and see this monster in GA. Do you have an address to this place. Would love to go there on my way to N. Florida in about two weeks. A large eastern is a MUST-SEE for me!!! LOL!!!
Thanks for the interesting posts/input so far!

Zee

chattahoochee nature center. dont know the address. i think you can "google it" and it finds their website. they also have a cool red northern pine

Occasionally big Okeechobee kings are found. Most kings I've found there were between 3 and 4 feet. The largest female I've found was 50 inches, and I've caught and kept a male from that area that's about 70 inches, and he has a definite preferences for rats. Finding kings over 5 feet is not too uncommon down there, but finding them over 6 is rare.

The kings from that area will take racers readily, and I'm sure water snakes make up a good part of their diet. I've housed them with garter snakes for weeks at a time with no feeding interest. Rat snakes would be taken I am sure... there is an abundance of rodent prey in that area, but the kings there still eat other snakes... They even eat anoles and skinks as adults.

>>.... Rat snakes would be taken I am sure... ...

can you tell us the foundation for this belief? field observations maybe?

thanks
terry

I've caught several Florida kings from the Lake Okeechobee area and I know people that have been catching them for years. I've fed them racers which they took willingly. I've also fed them kinked rat snakes. It has been my observation that rat snakes are more readily taken by Florida kings than any other snakes, but that is just what I have seen. I was with a friend down there a month ago, and he found a 5 foot glades rat under the same piece of trash as 2 Florida kings (which were significantly smaller). I've never seen a wild king feeding, though I have seen fresh caught kings regurgitate turtle eggs and rats.

n/p

I'm really curious to see it. I have a friend who lived there for years and never saw one. You say it's an intergrade? Let's see it!

ya'know john i never said he was the biggest,but now that you mention it,show me one bigger,i'll try and get more pics up im 5'10,cleo measures 75and1/4inches(6'3),you are welcome to come and see him he is a regular at the ETHS meetings and i also usally bring him to the ETHS expo for display at my table,there is no pudding to proove,i will get an accurate weight on him on his next vet visit,,,,,,,,peace,,,,,,,thomas

until you can show us something where we can get some kind of perspective from which to compare it.
(I'll see if I can take a PIC of one of my adults in the same exact situation & you tell me)

There's one at the Disney nature preserve in Orange Co., FL (TNC's nature preserve) that's a intergrade and that's the largest king I've ever seen. Krysko has seen it and knows exactly what snake I'm talking about. There's also a Florida King there that is 6' with no neck and some serious attitude!

I said it before, put up something to show how large the snake is. They guy holding it could be 5'5" for all we know!

LOL.......I'm actually 5'11 & 175 & that PIC was taken when he wasn't eating so you can imagine the girth on that beast when he was healthy & trashing med. & large rats.

Mike

>>I said it before...lets see some accurate measurements. That's a huge snake but either the weight or length is off.

Why do discussions like this proceed when there's the website that's been publicized on the forums, that enables you to take a photo shot from directly overhead, and mark points along the spine, to get a reasonably accurate measure?

the conversations here sound like what herpers might have sounded like before scales were invented & before anyone had had an idea of even something so simple as getting multiple hands to stretch a snake along a tape measure (or end-to-end yardsticks) and btw take a photo of it, too! Dead snakes stretch. Snakeskins stretch. A snake hanging in someone's hands, curls in its body, tape or no tape in the background, isn't very conclusive!

the forums--THIS forum, for kingsnakes--should be the place where hard fact & information is shared. I hope we can see some of that sort of information here, THAT would be a genuine contribution to lampropeltis knowledge.

peace

terry

I agree Terry. I know I measured my NJ male using serpwidgets and he shrank 6" lol. I swore he was over 5' but he is just knocking on 5 maybe 2" less than 5' at that. Also yes hard facts are essential but at the same time this isnt a hardened scientific forum where all your facts must be accounted for either.I dont want newbies thinking this place is some cold nerdlike debate forum where everybody throws so many facts out there they get confused. It needs a balance of hard facts and a little speculation and a smidgen of fun (possibly a dash of BS as well lol )All in all there is nothing wrong with a making a boast on the size of your snake and if you are called on it yes you should put up or shut up.

Keith
-----