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My impatience with my 60-day incubation period probably killed my first clutch of eggs. I had read that you could candle the eggs to see if they are fertile. I candled all 16 of my eggs and all of them appeared clear with a small dark spot in the corner. All 16 are white and have just about doubled in size since they were laid. Because they did not appear fertile I decide to cut one and see if any growth had taken place. Upon opening the egg I discovered a fully formed living baby. I did not mark which way the eggs were laying when I had removed the eggs to candle. I returned the remaining 15 back to the incubator. My question is, because I moved, turned, handled the eggs would you think that the eggs would still hatch? Today (Thursday) is day 60 with 94% humidity and temp at a constant 83 degrees during the entire incubation period.

I think if you really turned them they will probably drown. You could pip to be sure.

Marcel

>>My impatience with my 60-day incubation period probably killed my first clutch of eggs. I had read that you could candle the eggs to see if they are fertile. I candled all 16 of my eggs and all of them appeared clear with a small dark spot in the corner. All 16 are white and have just about doubled in size since they were laid. Because they did not appear fertile I decide to cut one and see if any growth had taken place. Upon opening the egg I discovered a fully formed living baby. I did not mark which way the eggs were laying when I had removed the eggs to candle. I returned the remaining 15 back to the incubator. My question is, because I moved, turned, handled the eggs would you think that the eggs would still hatch? Today (Thursday) is day 60 with 94% humidity and temp at a constant 83 degrees during the entire incubation period.
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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

cutting them early can do more harm than good. I would go back and recandle them all. That little dark spot always forms on the bottom so candle them, find the dark spot and place that side down, this should return them to thier original position and then let them pip on thier own time. Good Luck.

I have been pipping eggs for many years. I have pipped eggs as early as on day 45. As long as you leave the pipped egg in peace and place it back in the incubator it will do you no harm. Since she is on day 60 I would say they are ready to hatch so pipping is no hazzard all.

Marcel

>>cutting them early can do more harm than good. I would go back and recandle them all. That little dark spot always forms on the bottom so candle them, find the dark spot and place that side down, this should return them to thier original position and then let them pip on thier own time. Good Luck.

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

Of course Marcel you know this is all good natured debate, but I was wondering why you would feel it is benefical to slit an egg on day 45?
I very rarely find a healthy looking hatchling not able to come out of the egg on it's own, the only time I have been tempted to slit is when an egg takes many days longer than it's siblings. Often to find apon slitting they have not absorbed all thier yolk and had a darn good reason for staying in there or they had deformities and just wern't meant to come out.
I have one egg that is on day 62 and it still may be another week before I get concerned.
So I understand you've been doing it and getting away with it, but what is the benefit of slitting an egg before any of the eggs pip on their own?
Thanks,
Carol

I don't know about corn eggs but with python eggs I have experienced that fully grown babies died in the egg because the shell was too hard to tought to slit. And when you are working with heteros it is very nice to see if albino's are in the eggs. Ans the last reason is that it is very interresting. When I hatch eggs I prefer knowing if all babies are alive instead of waiting 10 days after hatching period and then opening the egg and find a dead perfect grown baby.

Marcel

>>Of course Marcel you know this is all good natured debate, but I was wondering why you would feel it is benefical to slit an egg on day 45?
>>I very rarely find a healthy looking hatchling not able to come out of the egg on it's own, the only time I have been tempted to slit is when an egg takes many days longer than it's siblings. Often to find apon slitting they have not absorbed all thier yolk and had a darn good reason for staying in there or they had deformities and just wern't meant to come out.
>>I have one egg that is on day 62 and it still may be another week before I get concerned.
>>So I understand you've been doing it and getting away with it, but what is the benefit of slitting an egg before any of the eggs pip on their own?
>>Thanks,
>>Carol

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

And I would not recommend that new snake breeders cut their eggs. It serves no purpose and can only cause harm. I would hate to see this info being construed as a common practice.

Kerby...

I would also not recommend it as common use. But the sound of the first post was a bit 'panic-like'. If he really did turn the eggs the babies probably have drowned already. But to be sure you can pip one egg. That was my point. You can see if it is alive because when you touch the snake it will move. I did not know pipping was such a touchy subject here. I have had no problems with pipping before. I started to pip 15 years ago when I had molded dimled yellow ratsnake eggs. I hatched great babies from these eggs. I am sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

Marcel

>>And I would not recommend that new snake breeders cut their eggs. It serves no purpose and can only cause harm. I would hate to see this info being construed as a common practice.
>>
>>Kerby...
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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

Again don't "panic" and cut the eggs. Cutting can only cause harm; waiting to see if they hatch means not having to "panic" and kill a snake "just to see" if it is alive. I prefer and RECOMMEND to others to not sacrifice a snake out of curiosity; be patient and it will either hatch or not hatch.

Also you can "candle" those eggs that are in question and see movement, especially this late in the game - still no need to cut a corn snake egg.

Maybe on the Python Forum it is common knowledge to cut your eggs, but then again this is the Corn snake Forum and the question WAS about Corn snakes.............

Kerby...

>>Maybe on the Python Forum it is common knowledge to cut your eggs, but then again this is the Corn snake Forum and the question WAS about Corn snakes.............
>>
>>Kerby...

The corn forum is the only forum I frequent..

Marcel
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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

the only time I have slit an egg is when one or more have pipped already. Marcel is correct in saying that why risk losing a baby just because he had no egg tooth or the eggs werre too thick? Once one has pipped, they are ready to go for the most part. I usually just make an x shaped slit, and leave them alone. Imagine losing a ten thousand dollar Piebald Ball or a genetic striped ball because the eggs were too thick or a baby didnt have an egg tooth!!!!! You can safely make the cuts once they started to pip. I still dont see the need for candeling corn eggs though, I just dont get it.

Actually Marcel said he cuts his eggs days before they are pipping just out of curiosity, not to save an egg. The scenario WAS NOT what you mentioned. I too have cut eggs days after the rest have hatched, but not a week before they were do to hatch just to see what was inside like Marcel.

Kerby...

I do not pip all eggs on day 45 of course. Just the ones I have given hope up. I know someone who pipped a African rock egg at day 60. This egg hatched successfully on day 90. The risk is not that high if you ask me. Loosing eggs simply because you do not pip has a much higher risk. Peeping inside an egg is very interresting actually. If you pip early the snake has no pigment yet. The first time I saw this I figured I won the lottery by hatching a leucy python. Well the truth is that only in the last few days the pigment is generated. With burm eggs I pip all on day 50 and all of them surface on day 55

Marcel

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

I replaced the eggs back in the correct position (as best as I recall). Would they drown quickly? They were out of their substrate for about 15 to 20 min. I am pretty sure that most were repositioned correctly.

I recommend NOT slitting the eggs, but to just be patient. Slitting the eggs serves no purpose. If the babies are to drown, slitting the eggs won't prevent that. I say that the eggs are going to be okay. Good luck.

Kerby...

Thanks for the encouragement.

>>Thanks for the encouragement.

I think yor chances are quite good since they have come this far.. I am not saying you should pip but I would pip certainly once to brake the horror tention.. I am a nervous wrack when eggs are pipping and hatching..LOL

Marcel
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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

I have 3 cornsnake eggs that I drove to pick up. They went through a 3 hour car ride to get back here and then I set up the homemade incubator exactly the way she had it. The girl said they had been incubating for about 4 weeks and I've had them for over a week now. I've checked the temperature several times and it's consistently 80 degrees.

Just after the car ride, I noticed one of the eggs was dimpled...now the other two have dimpled. I've tried to candle them and can't see a thing. I want to know if I've killed them by transporting them...and these dimples and dents are really bothering me. The humidity is high so I can't imagine that they're too "dry," yet I understand that the eggs dimple a bit right before hatching too.

This is my first attempt at incubation...Since I didn't have them the entire time, I'm not sure where they should be. She said she had incubated them for 4 weeks and if you add my 1-2, it hasn't been enough time. But, I can't figure out why they'd be dimpling so.

Do you think it would kill them for sure if I cut a slit to peek at them?

Dimpled eggs would indicate that they are drying out. No problem -- mine often dimple sometime during incubation, and I just add a little water to the vermiculite. They eggs will puff back out (they do dimple right before hatching, which is normal). Are the eggs in a small container inside the incubator? You could add a lid to the container with a few holes for air exchange. That would definitely help keep up the humidity. I've also heard that you can lay a damp paper towel over the eggs, but I've never tried that one. What kind of substrate are you using? I like to use vermiculite. If eggs start to dimple, I dribble a small amount of water into the vermiculite surrounding the eggs (never *on* the eggs) and they'll puff back out by morning. Be sure the substrate isn't sopping wet though. Then you'll just grow mold.

I'm sure that you did not do any damage to the eggs by moving them. Eggs are tougher than we give them credit for! Sounds like they just need a bit of water.

Good luck!
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Ronda Van Winkle
Northwest Herpetoculture

Yes, they are in a small plastic box, with a hinged lid that isn't snapped tight, inside the incubator. There is condensation on the lid so I know there is enough moisture...I did try laying a warm wet cloth napkin across the eggs for the night. They never did puff back up.

But, Guess what!?!? Today I found a head peeking out!! (Yes, I'll try to get a picture...it's so cute!! LOL!) So, it looks like the dimpling was my clue that the babies were coming soon. And, as usual, I was worried over nothing!! It's so typical of me. LOL!

This is my first year with snake eggs. They aren't corn snake eggs, but I can completely relate. The hardest thing of all is having patience. Didn't have any way to candle the eggs to begin with and was seriously convinced they were all bad. Got my second clutch and by that time (a month after the first clutch was laid) since none had molded, I thought perhaps they were good. If I'd lost patience, i'd have lost the eggs too!

Of course I've found that browsing around on kingsnake.com in order to stave off impatience can just get me in more trouble... hence four new snakes in my collection. (two of which get VERY big).

Now I'm just waiting on the eggs to hatch, the first clutch is due at the earliest on the 21st (10 days!!!) but since the eggs have incubated at slightly low temps, I gotta expect them to take a little longer. (Been at 80* to 82* generally, sometimes getting up to 86 for short periods and down to 74 for even shorter periods)

I think that your eggs will be fine. Best advice I've received is "incubate em till they hatch or turn green and start to smell super bad". Easy enough for me to do that.

Keep everyone posted on the progress of your eggs!
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~Sasheena
Ground Snakes
Kit, Kaboodle, Tantilla, Tantillas, Lightning, Kinkee, Maple
JCP
Dreamer
Rosy
Castle
Kings
Licorice, Bishop, Queenie, Jester, Tigris, Euphrates
Pandora, Phantom
Lady
Corns
Aphrodite, Athena, Hermes
Tiger
Amulet

I did an experiment years ago on 4 eggs and these are the results. The eggs will be fine in my opinion. I also agree don't slit eggs on colubrids. Every time I have slit the last few that didn't split themselves they were deformed or had other problems.
The experiment.
I started with 4 eggs from a Leucistic Texas Rat Snake that were layed on 6-28-99. I waited until I could candle all 4 eggs and see great veins in them. I decided to turn the eggs at different stages to see if it would hurt them. All were turned and none were to be at their original layed postion when hatching. Following is the turning schedule.

EGG ONE-- On 7-7-99 I turned it one half turn to the right and never bothered it again.

EGG TWO-- On 7-7-99 I turned it one quarter turn to the right and I turned it one quarter turn to the right every week until 8-21-99 with it being turned one and three quarters turns total.

EGG THREE--I turned this egg one half turn to the right on 8-4-99 about one half the way through incubation and never bothered it again.

EGG FOUR-- On 7-7-99 I turned this egg one half turn to the right and on 8-4-99 one half turn to the right again and on 8-21-99 one half turn to the right again for a total of one and one half total times.

All four eggs hatched on 9-4-99 with 4 perfect males.

Even though this grouping is too small for any real scientific findings it does show that in this case using Luecistic Texas Rat Snake eggs that turning them at these times did no harm.

Off course you shouldn't turn eggs but I had other cases of eggs being dropped and rolled across the floor and there was no way to put them back in the original position yet they all hatched. Eggs are tough to destroy. When an egg goes bad we try and assume it was something we did when I would argue the oppposite. I have touched eggs weekly, misted directly on them, left black moldy rotten eggs attached to good ones yet all the fertile ones when candled hatched just fine. Too many wife's tales on what to do or not do. HDEAN

The first year I bred snakes ('92?) I made an emergency call to a local herper wondering "How the heck do I incubate these things?!" He told me to buy a cheap-o styrofoam cooler (the kind that just holds a 6-pack), put moist vermiculite in the bottom, stick a thermometer through the side so I could read the inside temps from the outside, put the lid on, and set the entire thing inside the adult snake's enclosure where it was warm. So far so good. Within the first week, my snakes figured out how to get under the lid and into the incubator. I'm sure they had a ball digging through the vermiculite and turning those eggs every which way. I would get everything back in order, only to find a few days later that the snakes had gotten back in to the incubator, and dug and turned those eggs. I think at that point I used duct tape to secure the incubator lid (a big "no-no," I know). Much to my surprise, almost all of the eggs hatched, even after they had been disrupted twice and I really had no clue which side should be up. I agree that eggs and embryos are tougher than we give them credit for. And I also recommend spending the $40 or so for a Hovabator!
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Ronda Van Winkle
Northwest Herpetoculture

LOL! Too funny, Rhonda!! I bet you wanted to choke those snakes after all that!

that by turning eggs you can predict all males LOL

Kerby...

.

hello friend, you should be able to tell a good egg from a bad egg(for the most part) the second they are laid. A good egg will be fully expanded and white(although sometimes they arent so white) and a bad egg will be soft and squishy and not so adherent. This is especially true once they have incubated for as long as yours have. If they werent going to hatch they would have went bad by now. The bottom line for me is get it right the first time, put them in, and dont touch them for the remainder until they pip. I only open the egg containers every couple of days to get fresh air in and thats it. Since I switched over to 1.1 perlite ratio, I havent lost a single egg and I swear by it. Here is a series of photos showing how I set mine up. Good luck.

I put a damp super squeezed out paper towel over the clutch to hold in the humidity, I use disposable(although I keep them for the next season) tupperware containers that they just came out with for most clutches. I use 1 part perlite and just shy of one part water(in weight for both). I have 4 tiny holes, one on each side of the container for air transfer. I remove the lid on each container every three days or so to let fresh air in. I place the containers on a high shelf in my snake room that I know is 83 or 84 degrees and i basically forget about them. Since I have been using perlit with these containers, I havent loast an egg.

x

if you have a lot of eggs and you removed them from each other, these containers may be too small. I have had 25 eggs clutches in these containers that hatched out 100%. I dont seperate unless the snake lays them that way.

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

lol, I guess those are BURM eggs?

>>lol, I guess those are BURM eggs?

Yep..

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage

>>lol, I guess those are BURM eggs?

Yep..

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Marcel Poots (Holland)

'Where is your crown King Nothing?' James Hettfield

Marcels snakepage