Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know I will probably take heat for this post but I don't care, this is bothering me. Before I purchased my captive bred ball python I went and bought every book I could find and researched until I thought I read everything there is to know. I have had my ball for a year now and everytime I ask someone something I don't know about them, it seems they just spit out what is in every book I have. Doesn't anyone have anything else to say? Just because someone goes and writes a book on a subject doesn't make them an expert, I don't care what kind of degree they have. For instance, when my ball refused food for a few weeks I was concerned so I asked around, I was advised that ball pythons don't normally feed on the rats in this country because that's not what they are used to where they are from. I don't agree with this. Picture this analogy. Everyone in my bloodline is born and raised in america, as well as with me...all of the sudden I am shipped to africa where they eat different foods that I'm not used to, of course I'm going to be hesitant to eat at first and then become accustomed. Now, if everyone in my bloodline is born and raised in america but I'm born and raised in africa, there shouldn't be a problem with me wanting the food there because I wouldn't know any different. Am I all of the sudden going to get a flashback of my homeland and want a #2 from burger king? I don't think so. So why is it that when I have a ball python that was born in america...does he all of the sudden not want to eat an american rat just because this food supply isn't readily available where he originated and has also never been. Doesn't make sense to me. If he was born and raised here, and been feeding on rats his whole life...he doesn't know any different. I'm not really asking anyone why my ball won't feed right now, I'm content with that. I'm wondering why nobody questions these things. I guess in the end you really have to ask yourself....is it nature or nurture?

Trust me....you'd turn your nose up at their food...

snakes are different than humans, if a snake doesn't like the rat he can't go to McDonalds & grab something else or order a pizza. It does seem silly at times but i believe it makes sense. Their diet over there is quite different. I believe gerboa is one of their main source of food (I believe also called the kangaroo rat but not positive). Now gerboa & rats totally look different & i'm sure they smell totally different. Now if a species in nature hunts a specific prey I totally agree with it passing down to their young regardless of where they are. To me it seems that certain things trigger their instict . So smell could be the real big factor. Solomon ilsand ground boas as noeonates from what i have read need to be started on tree frogs, anoles, or house geckos & can eventually be persuaded to eats rats but requires much work. I don't feel that balls are as picky but it is possible that some are this way. Also they aren't as smart as us so if rats don't smell like what their instinct tells them is food they wouldn't see that as food & attack that animal. now if the ball was eating rats & then stopped during the colder months i would just say that balls can tend to fast during the breeding season which is correct as far as I have seen.

Food preferences are partially genetically determined, although they also are molded by experience. This is why some snakes will ONLY eat lizards or frogs or amphisbaenians, ect. I think we are fantastically lucky that any snakes eat the mice and rats we give them.
But your snake on a feeding strike might not be eating for reasons besides you not giving him what he wants. But tempting the snake with its favorite foods (gerbils, for example) might get it to eat in the same way that cookie dough ice cream might get a person to eat if they were sick. Sometimes snakes have their own reasons for not eating, I think.
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Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

Why will Cornsnakes usually eat Deer mice when they wont feed on lab mice? Because they smell different.

I bred King cobras a couple years in a row, and just because the adults were conditioned rodent feeders from 2 months old, never made a bit of difference to the hatchlings, who still had to be trained to accept a foriegn smelling food item.

Sometime a very strange scent will entice a reluctant feeder to eat, even a prey item or scent that the species in question has never been documented to ever come in contact with in the wild.

Why? I dont know, but the snake sure does.

Chad

first ,I didn't read all the other responces....(or books)....

.....you got a ball? from a dealer..one of them there CB balls.......it was born in Africa......

and...no matter where it was born.....they have been bred for a million years in a land that has mice,rats,etc,that smell "wild"....and we use donestic,american house mice and brown rats..........and a generation or so wouldn't affect a million years of genetics......

they smell differently.....

......so......anyways.....

balls suck......balls hate people....balls eat what they want,when they want.......balls do not like to be held,walked around with, or kept in a small cage.....

so...welcome to the world of balls......

.....they'll eat when they want...try mice,rats...they change from season to season.....(I use rats,mice,chinese hamsters,russian hamsters,syrian hamsters.....and gebils..)(and at times...they won't eat anything ....male and the females..)

have fun

JY

does anyone know where I can get my hands on some gerboas?? i've been searching in vain so far. So if anyone has an idea who may be able to help me out let me know

later

Try Gerbils, no such thing as a gerboa.

back to the main threat topic, animals are instinctial animals much more than humans. Also, humans are omnivores, meaning they need to eat a mixed diet of vegetables, meats, grains etc. to remain healthy. Even those humans who choose not to eat meat much ensure they are getting either suppliments or other sources of protien to ensure health.

Animals, on the other hand, have much more specialized diets, hence why some only eat certain things. Some snakes feed primary on eggs, they won't eat mice or rats, they eat eggs. Without eggs as their primary diet, these snakes wont survive. Now, maybe chicken eggs will suit it fine, instead of the eggs of birds it eats in the wild, but it may take awhile to actually decide chicken eggs are alright eggs to eat.

I don't profess to have a huge understanding of ball pythons in their natural habitat but I understand why some balls may not like rats or mice. If their instincts gear them more towards gerbils and kangaroo rats, then that is what they are looking for. There are ways to wean pythons off natural food into the more easily to get/raise domesticated mice/rats and pythons so far, have been born, raised and died on domesticated rats with no ill effects to my knowledge. So it really boils down to what you want to feed your python. Gerbils are not that hard to get though from what I have heard, not that easy to breed, but they can't be that hard as I have seen gerbils available in just about every petstore I have been in that sells small animals. I don't recall seeing any kangaroo rats though.

Being curious I researched a bit on gerbils and kangaroo rats and found soem interesting facts. The common petstore gerbil is in fact descended from Mongolian Gerbils which originated from, well, Mongolia. There are gerbils in West Africa though, Kemps Gerbil, Guinea Gerbil and a third who's name eludes me right now. There are no kangaroo rats that I have been able to find that live in Africa, most seem to live in the southern US. So even feeding gerbils to bal pythons won't be feeding them their natural food, just close to it. However even Mongolian gerbils will have a different scent than Guinea gerbils.

there are gerboas......they used to be $65..now cheaper......yet I don't know price...still too high...

also....bushy tailed jirds......

degus........

fat tailed duprasi........

.....gerbils........they are cheaper if you find them wholesale.. ....stores get 7 or 8 dollars....you can find them for $1.50....to $2.00.........

and as I said...balls don't always eat gerbils....they eat what THEY want.......

hamsters of all species work alot...I have a het that eats chinese and one that wants rats......I have a big old scarred girl that wants russians........and another that switches from russians to peromyscus mice........and back......

.......just try rats and mice...alternate every week.....try live....then you have it....as a pet even....LOL

I just threw large old mice in with 5 males....4 ate.....one went 4 months...one went 3.....and for at least the one........I looked at card..it's says..hamster ...last June 21.....now a mouse.....March 25.....that's 9 months........

they are fun....yep.......

JY

LadyPayne is having a play on words! Jerboas come from the desert areas of Lybia and Egypt see: http://www.scarycreatures.co.uk/jerboa_info.htm

Jerboa/Gerboa (both spellings are acceptable) is a word and there is such a thing. It is a 'group' name used for the rodent species in the genus Dipus - characteristics of long hind legs and long tails, I believe.
And yes, the Egyptian jerboa is one of them - so is the Australian jerboa, and what people refer to as kangaroo rats.

Denise - The Mom half
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Denise (Mom) and/or Jared (son)
Take care!

1.0 Ball Python - Jake
1.0 Bearded Dragon - Merlin
1.0 Pixie Frog - Pixel
2.0 Chinese Fire belly Newts - Fred n' Ed, and Ed n' Fred
1.0 Black Cat - Shorty
1.0 Anery Kenyan Sand Boa - coming soon (completing brumation with present owner before joining our home)
0.0.4 Tanks waiting on us to decide what is going in them! LOL

was advised that ball pythons don't normally feed on the rats in this country because that's not what they are used to where they are from. I don't agree with this. Picture this analogy. Everyone in my bloodline is born and raised in america, as well as with me...all of the sudden I am shipped to africa where they eat different foods that I'm not used to, of course I'm going to be hesitant to eat at first and then become accustomed. Now, if everyone in my bloodline is born and raised in america but I'm born and raised in africa, there shouldn't be a problem with me wanting the food there because I wouldn't know any different.

One generation, two generations, or even 30 generations does not CHANGE the inherent DNA or hard-wired physiology of the animal. It doesn't matter if its 30 generations removed from being in Africa, because these snakes have evolved for thousands (millions?) of years to grow to a specific size, to take a specific food item, to exploit a specific niche, etc etc etc. Breeding it in North America doesn't change any of its inherent instinct.

Don't confuse your pallette with the DNA of Ball Pythons. Its not even remotely similar. I mean, that's like saying, I've been breeding Ball Pythons in Canada (where I live) for 11 years. Therefore my Ball Pythons should be able to live in igloos and eat whale blubber. No. DNA like that is not changed over a few generations.

Pick up an evolutionary biology textbook. It'll explain things 100x more in depth that I have time for here.

Best of luck,
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I have to agree with you on the premise that if the ball was reared from birth to eat mice/rats then going off feed should not be attributed to the difference in scent between native and captive prey items. Despite their lack of intelligence they obviously know from multiple successive feedings that the captive item is in fact prey. The initial few feedings as a hatchling can be difficult and I could accept the distinction between prey items as the justification, but not for well established long term captive. The initial feeding response would be genetically disposed towards the scent of the native prey, but not after long term conditioning.

My American born snakes accept and thrive on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and the occasional #2 from McDonalds. The reason they do this is because I don't question it.
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GratefulFred