Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone,
I took Herman back to the vet today. I called and spoke to the vet and he said that the upper respiratory will not go away with one injection of Baytril. Herman was acting fine when we left, he was OK at the office - just breathing a little heavy and the vet came in - told him that Herman is doing better... He gave him another injection and I came home... When I got home, Herman had VERY watery eyes, bubbling more than before and VERY labored breathing. He had his eyes open. They would tear up and then he would close them, only for them to SLOWLY open. I put him under his heat lamp and he's hardly moving... The eyes are now closed but you can tell that they are tearing because they are puffy. Has this happened to anyone after the injection of Baytril or has seen this happen to a stressed out tort??? I am just going to leave him and hope that he feels better soon. I don't want to stress him out more tonight. This is just awful!!! Please post a reply. I'd like to hear words of wisdom. Thanks.
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net

I have only seen boxies get baytril shots but I have never heard of them reacting to a shot especially if this is his second one. HOwever the stress of the trip and being handled and getting the shot might have made things a little worse, but that does sound rather drastic. I would keep him extra warm for the night and if he is the same way tomorrow I would definately give your vet a call back and tell him what is happening.

Good luck, keep us posted
Christina
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1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.2 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.4 mice (Gabby and friends)
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

I am keeping the ceramic emitter between 90-95 tonight... The cool side is at 80. Should I turn it up? The signs that I described earlier are gone except for some bubbles every now and then. He looks like he is sleeping. He hasn't moved from the spot I put him in. Every now and then moves his head and his legs pump. I hope this little guy will be OK. I was reading on another site that torts have had allergic reactions to Baytril, especially the leopards but didn't give a listing of side effects. The vet wants me to come back for another injection on Saturday but I don't think I am going to be taking this little guy anywhere. Especially after what happened tonight when he was doing so well and feeling better... The whole thing relapsed - worse. I'll give him a good warm soak in the AM if he looks like he's feeling better. We shall see. How warm should I have his area? Hot side? Cool side?
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net

When the Vet gave my little Redfoot an injection of Baytril I could see that it caused him terrible pain. I posted about this a few weeks ago on this site. On the way home from the Vet my tort began to choke and bring up blood and mucus and I thought he would die right then and there. I will forever be cautious about injecting him or any other tort with Baytril from now on. I was told on this site that oral Baytril is almost as effective and a whole lot less tramatic for the little tort. By the way, this same little tortoise seems to be completely well and no more wheezing, or fluid from nose. He is gaining weight steadily and eats like a little horse. Hopefully, your tortoise treatment will have the same outcome. Good luck.

I stopped by the pet store where I bought this little guy. The owner specializes in tortoises and turtles. He carries many different species. I told him what happened. Apparently there is a formula that you use to come up with the dosage and it is dependent on weight. This vet never weighed him... Just injected a dosage. The pet store owner said that he most likely over-dosed my tort. After he said this, it all makes sense and all the signs I was seeing was symptoms of ODing. I will NEVER EVER go back to this guy again. Anyway, happy to say that Herman is very active today and seems very happy. He's just trotting around the tank. He hasn't eaten yet but I was sure to give him plenty of soaks since this poor little guy went through agony. Anyway, it goes to show that a vet that is on the ARAV website and the Herp Vet Connection website doesn't necessarily mean a thing. Now that I am more aware, this will never happen again to my poor little guy. I am taking him either today or tomorrow to the pet store owner. He said he wants to take a look at him. Make sure everything is A-OK. He seems to be MUCH better now. What a scare though!!!!
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Lisa

1 Mali Uro - Matilda
1 Leopard Tort - Herman
1 Shih Tzu - Jake

lisasmith@optonline.net

I wouldn't dismiss the advice of the vet. I would think he would understand the physiology better than the hobbiest.
Baytril is a very safe drug and the only real problems encountered is tissue damage in the area of injection. It seems to be well documented that Baytril is as effective if administered orally as it is via injection so I don't see a need for injection unless you have a very stuborn animal.
I don't think the problem you saw was the result of OD. It might have been due to a bad injection location.
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Ed
Tortoise_Keepers-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

I really don't think it would be a bad injection site. I mean think about whne you get a shot, if the dr hits you in bad spot it just hurts more, not make things worse. Also I don't know if I would dismiss the vet but you can question him on what he did. Ask why didn't you weigh this guy b/c he really should have. Again even if it is too much you still would not get that kind of reaction from the BAYTRIL or the injection itself. HOwever STRESS can make things worse and if you really think about when you have a cold or the flu, you always get worse before you get better. All animals and their medical needs are very similar to humans. So think of it has yourself. You trust your dr, right? But you ask questions right? Well you need to do the same with your vet. You've been sick and as I have stated above it is very simliar. Baytril is a very safe drug it is just a type of antibiotic. I really don't think it is the drug itself. Besides I have used ALOT both orally and via injection and topically on various, reptiles mammals and even some hawks and owls, it is very widely used b/c it will treat almost anything. So I would go back to your vet, not hte pet store guy (don't forget how much schooling the vet has???) and I would ask the same questions that you are asking here.

Good luck and I am glad that he is doing well
Christina
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1.1 Russian Tortoise (Willy & Mikey)
0.1 Ornate Box Turtle (Lily)
1.0 Red Eared Slider (Chester)
0.0.2 White's Tree Frog (Kermit & Phil)
0.0.1 Red eyed Tree Frog (Justin)
0.0.2 Big Eyed Tree Frog
0.0.2 Bubbling Frog
0.0.2 Tiger Leg Tree Frogs (Akari & Shiro)
0.0.3 Amazonian Milky Tree Frogs
0.0.1 Dwarf Megophrys
0.0.2 Rainbow Burrowing Frog/Ornate Hopper
0.0.3 Asian Blue Webbed Gliding Tree Frogs
0.1 Praire Dog (Timmy)
0.2 Chinchillas (Layla & Snickers)
0.4 mice (Gabby and friends)
0.1 dog (Holly)
2.0 Cats (Champ & Bear)

Oh and a husband

I agree with Ed. I had Redfoot tortoise react this way to Baytril injection. She was weighed and dosed accordingly. She did exhibit some extreme discomfort and upset then regurgitated her stomach contents. Also Baytril does have a fairly large threshold in terms of overdosing and I don't think that just a little regurgitation incident would be all that would have happened to you animal had it been overdosed.

I hate how to inject any animal with Baytril and if my torts are eating and Baytril is warranted I always get an oral dosage from the vet and just hide the pill in a treat (grapes, bananas, moistened Mazuri all work well).

Also, I don't think that a pet shop owner (even if they are extremely knowledgeable) has the equipment necessary to diagnose a health problem with your tortoise. You are ill advised to take anyone's opinion pertaining to the health of your animal based solely upon looking at it.

If you are unhappy with what your vet did find another one. If your animal does have a respiratory infection one injection of Baytril did not likely clear it up. It may just have knocked it down for a while.

Several species of tortoises have had severe reactions to Baytril reported similar to what you described. I would strongly recommend that readers try a different antibiotic. Injectable antibiotics are better to use than oral ones because the dosage is much more exact (unless you are able to dose the animal orally with a stomach tube, which has its own set of problems and can be quite traumatic to the animal).

I recommend the use of ceftazidime instead. It is much superior to Baytril in that it only needs to be injected EVERY THREE DAYS and causes no painful reaction or tissue damage at the injection site. The dosage for tortoises is 20 mg per kilogram or roughly .6 mg per ounce of total weight. Inject every 72 hours for a total of 4-5 doses. Bill Zovickian