Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My step-sister called today to describe a snake she saw in her backyard in Baton Rouge. Her description: a slender, solid black snake with blue/green iridescence, and a strong odor when it was cornered by her dog. It did not appear aggressive, even when confronted by the dog. It did not strike, hiss, or retreat - just stayed in one spot. Of course, she was concerned that it was a moccasin, which I promptly dismissed, based on her description.

Now, I'm not an indigo expert, but off the top of my head, it sounded like she was describing an indigo. But, upon checking my references later, I realize that the official range of the indigo is nowhere near Baton Rouge, LA. But, none of the species listed in that area fits the description, either. According to the Snakes of Louisiana website ( http://www.kingsnake.com/louisiana/ ), the only things that might fit are the TX ratsnake, or the Black Pine... but the black pine isn't shiny, and the TX ratsnake wouldn't probably react as calmly to a dog nose (in my experience).

Is there anyone in the area that wants to go see what Tracia has in her yard?
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Bonnie Keller
VA Reptile Rescue
www.vareptilerescue.org

sounds like a black racer

But she could have been too scared to really give a good estimate of size..The racers in that area are not shiny either..
I've long thought that Indies should be there, but with their habitat destruction since the 70's, I would seriuosly doubt that now...
How a about a nice big mudsnake..Maybe she couldn't see the belly..They could certainly be described as shiny and big!!
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Carl W Gossett
Garage Door Herps
Monument,Colorado...northern territory of the Great Republic of Texas

... but the ones I've seen had pink high enough on the sides that it was pretty obvious. She said that she was able to get right over top of it, as it was right next to the back steps. She says she was within a couple feet, but overhead. Tracia isn't completely ophidiophobic, so she didn't panic, and I'd guess she probably had the size correct - about 2.5'... Which, could lend itself to the mudsnake theory, but she's not immediately near a wetland. I'm confuzzled... <g> If I had the money to go down there, I would. I sure hope she is able to get me a picture.

--Bonnie

I have to disagree that they are not shiny. I used to breed them...and had some adults that (even though they are keeled), were extremely shiny and glossy.

In Mississippi (Desoto nt'l forest) there have been numerous rumors recently of indigos (there WAS a failed re-intro program in the 1980')...but the snakes reported as indigos turned out to be Black pines.

I even itentified a nest thought to be indigos as black pines (the hatched eggs are very easy to distinguish)

Hi, Bonnie,

Sounds like she has stumbled upon a black pine (Pituophis m lodingi)
As Dean mentioned, they too have quite a glossy sheen and given that some even have rust colored chins, adding to the D. c couperi appearance.
Len Krysko maintains a pair that even experienced Drymarchon keepers have confused with D. c couperi, when glancing at them through their enclosures, not to mention some of the MONSTER specimens Shannon Brown maintains!
The picture posted is of a month old P. lodingi, just after the eyes have gone clear prior to ecdysis. They are really quite sheen, once they have completed shedding.

Best regards,

Jeff

instance when a park ranger in the area gave an account of encountering a couperi, only to describe how the specimen encountered, coiled and gave a classic Pituophis HISS?
I believe you made mention of this sometime ago.

Jeff

I think I would have to vote either Southern Black Racer (Baton Rouge sort of straddles the ranges of the So. Black Racers and the Black-chinned racers), Mud Snake, or a melanistic Speckled King Snake. The last specimen of a Black Pine Snake reported in Louisiana was in Washington Parish....probably 90 miles east of Baton Rouge. I have never heard any reports of Black Pine Snakes further west than N.W. St. Tammany Parish (unsubstantiated), still probably 60 miles east of Baton Rouge. I would say that if it did not posture and hiss, it probably wasn't a wild Black Pine Snake. Also, at 2.5 feet, most Black Pines still have some pattern showing and are not yet solid black (and may never be). Of course, there's always the possibility of an escaped pet snake of some other species that is not indigenous to that area.