Reptile & Amphibian Forums

at all. People for reasons I dont understand people dont care for OBK's on average. Can any of you non OBK lovers say why you arent attracted to this snake . I would like to hear some views on them. Before you post go look at my OBK page and scan through the pics then tell me why they are unpopular.

Aren't they kind of uncommon Keith? Maybe most people are just not familiar with them. Personally, I think they are very cool.
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Tim

Actually, I do think they are cool, just not cool enough for the $100 price tag I've seen on the babies. I also hear a lot of stories about babies that are poor feeders... Most of the adults aren't very attractive to me... I've seen very few that I really liked. The one on your site from reptile artistry is awesome though.

Keith I think it stems from two issues. First the price of the snake was held artificially high for years and second not all OBX kings turn out to be the highly specked animals seen in photographs. As a result, too many people paid way to much for an animal that turned out not looking much differnt than an ordinary eastern! (Yikes, did I just say ordinary eastern to Mr. Hilson?! LOL) Anyway, IMHO this "soured" the market it isn't that people don't appriciate them.

as great as they look, some of the coastal Easterns from GA and SC are so damm killer looking themselves, at least IMO.

They're also pretty expensive compared to the price for a equally nice looking "plain" Eastern...again, IMO.

I have the female I got from you Keith, and she looks great, but I'll sell/trade her for a nice locality female Eastern from S. Georgia or N. Florida - if not here then when I return to Tallahassee.

Don't get me wrong, I think they look great but not sooo much better than other Easterns to command the price they ask, etc.

You've got some killer pics though, and the really salt-n-pepper ones are gorgeous. I'm splitting hairs here though, I love the beasts from the East!

-John

I agree they are not better looking than Easterns but I think they are as nice. One thing I think justifies a bit more of a cost is they are rare and protected in NC. You cant go get wild ones like you still can with Eastern Kings. I wonder what the market should be on these guys ? Any one have a guess or a view on market price ??? I think something like 50-100 bucks.

Keith
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I agree with Keith that the OBK's should command a higher price since they are for the most part uncommon in collections and protected in the wild.
I have 9 adult and yearling OBK's that I am working with right now, with the exception of my Louisiana Pines they are at the top of my list for the species that I am working with.
Keith, the pair that I got from you were copulating earlier today.
Also,i'm sorry to mention a pit on the king forum. You know getula is # 1 with me.
Matt Kotowski

Is the OBK really more rare than a true AK? My first total fascination with kings was with "goini." The stuff I saw dead or alive in Tallahassee and surrounding areas was awesome, as Sean now knows all too well.

The true blotched, or "goini" from the best I can tell is considered extinct - that is, the one that is totally patternless and was thought to be a relict of when the Gulf of Mexico was much further out to sea than it is today. So the currunt true AK are crosses between that species and a L.g.g., and then of course the natural backcrosses, etc.

I may be off on this theory, so if someone has read otherwise, I'd love to hear it, really, because I'm not sure I totally understand the biogeography and genetics of this snake.

But as far as I'm concerned the most beautiful king by a long shot is a 5' totally patternless, light copper-colored AK - and Keith, locale snakes of that pattern are damm hard to find; at least from people you can rely on to provide you with accurate data.

To me, that's the rarest, and most beautiful king there is.

I agree though that OBK should fetch a better price than they do because nice specimens are gorgeous snakes, plain and simple. One problem I've found is that I've got a nice female who can breed with ease next season. I don't want to breed OBK so why keep her? But at the same time I've got to sell her to someone who will keep the line clean (this is Howie Shermans "Striker" stock) and not cross it with some north Florida Eastern. So it's kinda a "What do I do situation?" But I won't sell her to just anybody, that's for sure - I respect the uniqueness of them and don't want people mucking up this lineage.

Finding a nice AK will be a goal of mine - a serious one - when I move back to Tallahassee.

Peace.

-John

Not sure I follow your last. As far as keeping a particular line "clean" I can see the relavance of keeping other lines OUT but as for it being bred into other generic lines, what's the big deal? Making the attempt to control what others do seems to me a wasted effort. If locality is "the thing" for you wouldn't it be better to focus on preserving your stock's purity? It's not as if that isn't hard enough. Its gotten to the point I wont call an animal locality unless I or a very close friend or associate caught the founder stock.

The reason no one is interested in them is because they lack effective marketing. You put up an ad for an OBX king with a $75 price tag in the classifieds, and most of the people that read it won't know what it is or why it is any more special than a $25 Florida or Eastern king. As babies they are not any more appealing than those two subspecies.

If one gave an explanation like: On the Outer Banks islands off the coast of North Carolina exists a unique population of kingsnake, Lampropeltis getula. They were thought to be their own subspecies stiticeps, and later a relic intergrade population between the Florida kingsnake and the eastern kingsnake, but recent studies have shown that they are a variant of the eastern king. Whatever they may be, their isolation from the mainland population of getula has allowed to keep/evolve their own distinct look. They are now protected in North Carolina so wild caught OBX kings are no longer available. There is a very limited number of captive produced animals available every year. bla bla bla... so buy mine!

Or alternatively, put a nicely designed flyer on your table at a show with pictures of adults and a similar explanation.

BECAUSE I LIVE IN NORTH CAROLINA, that's why. But I've ALWAYS wanted one.
At least I can keep EASTERN INDIGOS & Eastern KING snakes here!!! That's two out of three (but would like to have a pine too) OBKs are AWESOME snakes!

My 2.5 cents

Zee

Zee,

Yeah, that's true...but many of us live in an are where you can't legally keep Eastern Indigos, and I'd love to have one!

-John

You're right. I have to admit that I'd always wanted an Eastern Indigo more than any other snake since I was a little dude!!!!
So IT IS nice to keep one legally FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!

Zee

I think if you appreciate easterns, the unique look of the Outer Banks Eastern has to do something for you. I like both the bold banded and speckled pattern types. Mine have just come up from the big chill and are looking a wee bit thin and in need of new skin. As soon as they shed and get their feed bags on I plan to take some pictures. That striped male is also doing very well, although he doesn't tackle the big prey items like the other easterns.

Will

Outer banks kings are pretty, and are appealing because they are "rare" and can't be collected from the wild any longer. But...they seem like the anti-thesis to eastern kings: easterns are our flagship king...big, robust, and ready to eat! OBK are, from what I understand, smaller and can be finicky eaters. OBK are like superman without muscles. Actually, that statement ain't fair, as OBK are great in their own way. Maybe that's the problem...we shouldn't compare apples and oranges.

Ive seen a 5' OBK and he had plenty O muscle . I like to think of them as an Eastern King with the graphix package . They get good sized and can be picky eaters but then again Easterns are on average picky eaters as babies also. I know some lines take off right away but alot of them dont. Aloso not all lines of Easterns get huge in fact most of them dont. OBK's get to be around the same size as an average Eastern King.

Keith
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Yes, they can be really picky as babies (although as Keith mentioned, so can other getula - I have had both Apalachicolas and Brooks that were very difficult to get going), but if they have that reputation more than other kings, that could be a bit of a factor. Once they get going, they do feed just as voraciosly as other getula, and can easily get to 5 feet or so.

Also, as mentioned by others, if you get a hatchling it is hard to predict how much speckling it will develop as an adult.. And the price - while rarer than the other getula, probably not worth $200 for a hatchling that could be a picky eater and may not turn out as speckled as you expect it to.

All that said, they are my favorite snakes (tied with Apalachicola kings) because of their unique beauty and rarity - and because they are a KING!

I would be interested to hear what others think would be a fair market price - perhaps $75 to $125 depending on pattern and feeding response?

Bob Johnson

Reptile Artistry

In my experience you can make an educated guess which ones will turn out nice. It was my habbit to wholesale my entire production save the best couple of pairs. These I would raise as if they were my own and I could generally get 400 a pair by the time the year was out.

I stand corrected. Maybe others have erroneous info/beliefs about OBK, contributing to less popularity. Whatever the case, the ones I've seen lately are stunners. I'd like to have one, or two, or three, or......

Bob just hit your site. What can I say! Its one of the most nicely done sites I've seen in a long time!

Thanks, Tony!

I also agree with you that a breeder can usually spot the ones that will turn out the best (but not necesarily the customer) and when he keeps the nicest of a clutch as holdbacks, they can command a higher price.

In addition, one thing that is nice about the changes in the reptile market over the last decade is that most people now are keeping the snakes they like because they like them, not to make a quick buck. Although it would be nice if I could sell overy OBK that I produce for $200 each, that's not my primary goal in keeping them. They are just fantastic snakes!

Bob

Reptile Artistry

Keith,I think YEARS of artificial market management has soured alot of people into over-valuing their stock.These are RARE in the wild,and illegal to collect so they should still demand a higher $$ than easterns.The "different"lines/phases can be interesting but not predictable at all from young.And remember when I made a "casual observation"about them starting to look like brooksi??? Like I had kicked a hornets nest,lol. I think if some bigger breeders would lower the $$ they would actually pick up in popularity......Hey,it beats driving down there to let the extras go doesnt it??Jeff.........ps,I used to have a brown/red one and never saw another like it!

Oh gee guess I did! LOL Don't tell me we agree on something Jeff! Guess it realy is time to sell the collection.