Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No, I'm not eating it - but my new albino leopard is. I have put out plenty of calcium, but the moment I put him down in my vivarium, he went right for the sand. I pulled him out and put him in a sweater box with some well dusted mealworms and a good jar lid of calcium to hopefully get him well fortified, and I know that if his calcium levels get back to a more normal level he will eat less sand. My question is, is it really necessary to keep him off the substrate, and for how long? Thanks for your input.

ok...leos shouldnt be kept on sand..its not natural for them..they are a desert species but live in and on rocks with a very fine dusty layer of sand(most likely) you should switch to papertowes,slate,tile,carpet those are safe sand is not, there has been so many debates as to wether sand is safe...it can be if the gecko is well cared for and have enough calcium...also...since the sand has the vitaminib in it..it attracts the gecko into licking is..which is not safe..i'd put him om papertowels for now...

what are you talking about? Not natural? whats not natural about keeping a desert animal on sand? there on sand there entire lives in the wild. How many leopards have you kept and what all substrates have you used on them? Sand is PERFECTLY fine for leopard geckos as long as you sift out all the larger pieces. I have seen the sand that he is refering to, and there is nothing at all wrong with using it. If i were not using racks, and i was using glass cages like alot of people on here, i wouldnt keep them on anything but sand.
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Coming Soon
www.hubcitygeckos.com

Not all deserts are sand...a desert is just an unusually dry place. Leopard geckos in the wild live most of thier lives...and most importantly hunt...on rocks. There is sand around, but it is EXTREMELY fine and dusty...much more fine than ANYTHING we have commercially available...and it is only a very thin layer. Keeping leos in captivity on an entirely sand substrate is entirely unnatural for them. To most accurately (while keeping it innexpensive) natural substrate for them would be using fairly large flat rocks (like slate) with sand filling in the cracks.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

Thank you sankebyt! I have been keeping leos on sand for a while. I am putting this particular guy in a 30 gallon long, glass tank (he will eventually be getting some girlfirends). As I replied to the other sender. I am aware of the issues with reptiles eating sand, why they eat it, and how to correct the problem. My question was simply whether or not anyone knew about the digestibility of the Vita-Sand. I know that T-Rex Calci-Sand is (theoretically) fully digestible. This guy seemed to dive right into the sand like no leo I have seen before. I am sure with a little care his behavior can be modified. I was just wondering how well his system could handle this particular substrate during the weaning process. Once again thank you! There is nothing wrong with using sand for a healthy leo. I am glad I am not the only one on this site who thinks so.

I would definately switch him over to slate. Vitasand is basically calcisand only ground up finer. It totally reeks of calcium which is why its making your leo eat it, which isnt good. its not digestable and if he is eating a lot of it, it will pose a real problem (in fact i think there was a pic in last months reptiles magazine of a leo with sand impaction, and its one of the main causes of death in captive leos accourding to many herp vets. it wasnt very pretty ) I dont want to tell you what to do, if you wanna go with sand its up to you, but do you really want to risk it? Christina is right in where they live in the wild, its more rocky and not just layers of sand like the middle of the sahara desert like many people seem to think. But hey, its up to you. but a good pet owner should choose whats best for their leo and not take any risks
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~Melissa~
1.3 Leopard geckos (Guido, Oasis, Gypsy, Marli)
1.0 Bearded dragon (Pharoah)
1.0 Hog Island Boa (Michelangelo)
0.0.1 Crested Gecko (Picasso)
1.0 Ferret (da Vinci)
0.1 Chinchilla (Eevie)
And Jack the cat!

Melissas Menagerie

anartica is a desert, mind as well just put my leo on some hard pack snow, hope she likes it. Any kind of sand made from calcium (vita sand, calci sand) can't be digested by leopard geckos. all calcium sands are made fromt the same thing: calcium carbonate. here is a good link that shows you how calcium carbonate sands can't be digested. link. like 'stina said a natural substrate for leos would be slate with sand (not calcium carbonate sand) inbetween the cracks. just because they live in one ecosystem (pakistani desert) doesn't mean they dont seek out microhabitats that suit their needs. Humans can be found in most enviroments on earth, would you enslave a human and put him in the himalayas with no clothing? Just because they are found in an area classified as a desert doesn't mean that they live in places humans think is a desert (sandy areas).
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0.1 "Tremper" looking Albino Leopard gecko (Lex)
0.0.1 normal ball python (felix)
1.1 Feral cats that we adopted (Fuzzy, and Bear)

"There are six genes which determine the amount of melanism present in a person's skink"-meretseger

isn't that where blizzard and snow geckos come from..lol

n/p
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

He may not have been going for the sand because he was hungry...and whether that was why he did it or not, he's likely to do it again. Hatchling and smaller juvenile leos should NEVER be kept on sand, but most adults can be if the right precautions are made. Your leo is one that I don't believe should ever be kept on sand, purposely eating sand is NOT good. I don't think a leo that will purposely eat sand should ever be kept on any amount of it. I would take the sand out and use a different substrate. I recommend tiles...what size tank do you have?
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

I am aware that eating sand is not a result of hunger. It is a response to low levels of calcium in the system, and is generally rectified once the leopard has received adequate supplemental vitamins. I have had leos in the past that have eaten small amounts of sand, but the behavior is easily corrected by leaving a dish of calcium out and properly dusting their food. I have no doubts that this guy will do the same. My question was simply whether or not anyone knew about the digestibility of the Vita-Sand. I know that T-Rex Calci-Sand is (theoretically) fully digestible. This guy seemed to dive right into the sand like no leo I have seen before. I am sure with a little care his behavior can be modified. I was just wondering how well his system could handle this particular substrate during the weaning process.

none of the calcium/vitamin based sands are digestable by leos...it either goes in one end and out the other almost completely intact, or goes in and gets stuck there. Also, not all leos will stop eating sand if they have enough calcium...some may just like it. Also with vitasand, it doesn't just have calcium it has other vitamins and such that will encourage the leo to eat it...I would take him off it and keep him off it.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

Here are my two cents.. Sand is a natural substrate for leos, they do live on it, and since none of us (I assume) have caught one from Pakistan ect.. we dont know the full depth of how much they like or dont like sand, but the point is, its not digestible and we are the caretakers. There are many leos in the wild i'm sure die of impaction and since we have them in our homes we are responsible for making sure that doesn't happen. There are many things that happen in the wild that we as owners can and should prevent, impaction being one. No it doesn't happen to all leos but a risk is there. I lost four large leos to sand impaction (we did an autopsy to make sure it wasn't worms) The death is slow and painful for both animal and owner.
If you know an animal can eat fish, even if doesn't always happen, would you put your prized goldfish in there? No because there is a risk.. and even a small risk is too large for us to take...
That said, let us all drop the sand issue and agree to disagree.

Didnt one just get finished like 2 days ago?
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that it your leo not theirs. how many other thousands of people keep theirs on sand and never have problems???? some people just worry too much.
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numbers scare me....theres too many of them!

agree. if you keep the sand in a very thin layer, and make sure you watch your leo. you should b fine. some ppl here dont like sand, others do. i have half sand, and half tile. the sand is only as deep as the tiles. make sure the leo is not eating the sand and you should b ok. does every one agree? that all that needs to be done is the extra monitoring?
nevin
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1.1 brazilian rainbow baos-sunshine&chaos
1.1.1 leopard geckos-killer, narvana &sallean
1 blizzerd lizzard-grim
.1 bell leopard gecko-ecstacy
.1 tremper leopard gecko-euphoria
.2. amazon tree boas-sweetness&carnage
0.1.0 kenyan sand boa-stimpy
0.1.0 bearded dragon-blaze
1.0.0 uromastyx-chubby
2.0 brothers
0.2 sisters
3 cats-fat max, spiderman, &toby
1 miniture mutt-brutis

"dont be afraid to die, only be afraid to not live"

"dont become classified. if you are nothing, then you can be anything."

everyone complaining about sand...has anyone ever seen what the zoo med vita sand looks like.. i'll say its awfully fine.. and way dusty too.. i bought the grey and used it for a bit.. everything got soo dusty including the leos..a gecko that was once bright yellow looked dirty grey in color (fake ghost..lol) ( a quick misting washed the dust off..two hours later looked grey again.. i prefer my bright yellow looking geckos.. so switched back out to paper towels. i use calci sand when doing exhibits and shows... keeping close to 50 geckos can get expensive with any sand..

regarding the calcidsand absorption......woulksd the gecko not eat and absorb what it could and the rest be excreted out.. so maybe it is getting its calcium but its intake is more than its utilization

geckogod2

Leos absorb VERY VERY little...all of the calcium carbonate sands are pretty much completely indegestable for leos...besides the fact that they act like constant antacids in the stomach. I had vitasand for awhile...it is fine and dusty...but I really don't think its as fine as the sand in their natural environment...and think that's more dust than sand... Anyway, as far as what happens to it in the gut...they may be able to digest some of the dusty bits...but I'm pretty sure basically all of it either gets stuck in the gut, or passes through. It may also clump in the intestines...which could cause impaction quicker than normal if it isn't passed.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

oh btw...I got rid of the vitasand (which only took up about a fifth of my tank) b/c it was too big of a pain for me to clean...not b/c I thought it was unsafe... I think sand can be used safely...but that means not using sand in the entire tank and a lot more...lol...which is in my caresheet on my website if you want to look at that.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

I guess, in order not to be attacked for ignorance, I must be VERY, VERY specific when I post a message on this site. I never said I was using exclusively sand, I never said I thought my gecko was eating it because he was hungry, I never said that all deserts are like the sahara; I never said most of what has been attributed to me. I have a 30 Gallon long. My tank is probably about 70 - 80% tile. I have two artificial rock hides. I use an undertank heater and a thermostat. I have several pieces of dessicated (yes disinfected) cholla cactus. I have a humid box made from a disposable food container. I feed my geckos mealworms from a bowl. I rotate that bowl out on a daily basis for disinfection. I have a water dish. I use filtered water. I rotate the water and dish out on a daily basis for disinfection. I have two jar lids of calcium. I dust my food with calcium and vitamins. My tank gets filtered natural sunlight (but not enough to affect the temperature of the tank). I have a thermomter with two probes, one directly over the heater and one for the overall air temperature of the tank. I move the probes regularly to check for changes or irregularities in temperature in other parts of the tank. I use the vita sand to fill in the areas of the tank around the other furniture.
Now I am off to do what I should have done in the first place. Ask a vet and a chemist.
Oh, and lilroach56 - maybe next time your "conclusive proof" should be better than a 5 year old, amateur study, on a material that bears little relation to the one we are discussing.
To everyone who treated me with a semblance of respect - THANK YOU! To the rest...

Sorry for having assumed things...however when someone says their keep anything on sand...that's going to automatically make anyone (be they someone very experience on this forum, or someone with absolutely no experience with reptiles) assume that the entire substrate is sand. When someone comes on to ask a question, and I mean anyone...I'm not really "pointing" this at you...they need to be very thorough in describing what's going on if they want an appropriate response. Also, as far why the leo may be eating the sand, no one said, at least I don't remember anyone saying...that you said she was eating sand because she's hungry...vitasand encourages eating because of what's in it, and some just prefer it over calcium powder. Vitasand may even encourage eating more than regular calcium carbonate sands because it has vitamins in it. As far as digestability, don't ask a chemist, they won't be able to give you an appropriate response. I happen to be a sophomore prevet student and will probably end up getting a chem minor b/c I'm required to take so much chem to begin with I'll only need one more class...lol. I'm not saying I know as much as a vet or chemist...but I know enough to know that chemist wouldn't be able to tell you the digestability of sand in the leopard gecko digestive tract. Sand is not in a leo's digestive tract long enough to be digested by any significant amount because it is digested very slowly. Also, if the intake is faster than the digestion of stuck sand and/or passing of sand...that's where problems are going to occur and impaction may result. The other problem with calcium carbonate based sands is something to do with antacids...I don't remember all of that information...hopefully marcia or robin (i forget which one knows...maybe both...lol) will read this and can explain that. Now again, I do believe leos can be kept on sand safely...but I also believe that if a leo is observed eating or licking the sand it shouldn't be kept on it at all. Anyway, that's all I have to say...and again I apologize for having assumed things.
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Christina

Leopard Gecko Morph Descriptions

2.3 leos
-0.1 tangerine het rainwater albino w/jungle background (Blinkers)
-0.2 jungles (Vahz & Skissor)
-1.0 tremper albino (Spitfire)
-1.0 tangerine rainwater albino (Bronx)

-ignorance is not to be punished when one is trying to gain knowledge...what scares me is the vast number of people who, when given the information to gain knowledge, choose to ignore it.

NO IT IS NOT SAFE!!! Contrary to popular belief, in the wild leopard geckos do not eat sand. They do not even come in contact with sand. If you had done your homework you would know that wild leopard geckos live primarily on papertowels (although some have been seen in areas of butcher paper). They make their homes around cardboard rocks and in plastic caves. One of the main problems they face is searching for food in a landscape that has a tendency to sprout glass walls. This makes the presence of the bowl-dwelling meal-worm all the more critical to their survival. In the future, you should take more care to learn about the natural environment of your pets so that it may be more closely replicated at home.