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Egg bound Andean ???

Kigoma Mar 30, 2004 03:56 PM

I have had some experience breeding pythons, and close observation of friends breed pit vipers and elapids. I have a pair of L. andesiana that have definately copulated, and she a couple of weeks ago shed. Females body increased in girth somewhat, but about a week (ish) ago I noticed a distinguishable swelling just fore of the vent by about 2 inches, and the swelling is about 3" long. This seems peculiar to me because this "swollen" area is slightly more swollen than the rest of her body and the swelling remains the same- both in location and size.
Could this be normal ? Could she be egg bound?

I am hoping someone with colubrid experience out there can give me some advice, which I would apppreciate very much!

Replies (3)

rtdunham Mar 31, 2004 11:50 AM

given the time since what might have been her prelaying shed, yeah, she might be eggbound. You don't say whether you had a suitable laybox in place for her. They'll typically lay maybe 10 days after shedding, and 40 days or longer after their initial copulation. How do those dates relate to what your snakes experienced?

you can sometimes "express" (push out) eggs that are stuck. sometimes two eggs wedge together at the cloaca and like stooges in a doorway, can't get unstuck. a little gentle manipulation can separate them, permitting them to pass. at any rate, try pressing gently but firmly and steadily--the latter is imporant--on what might be an egg or eggs, pressing toward the vent/cloaca. Snakes often contract their muscles initially so the eggs won't move, but if you sustain that steady pressure--you have to use your own good judgement at how much force you can exert without hurting the animal--they'll often relax their muscles, you'll feel it happen, and at that point the eggs might slowly push out. Other times the best you can accomplish may be merely getting the end of the egg to show thru the cloaca. make sure you're seeing egg and not oviduct or other tissue, and you then have two options: use needle nose pliers or another tool to grip the egg and pull it out, or take a syringe with a very large needle and suck the contents of the egg out. The latter is called "aspirating" and an aspirated egg -- basically a deflated eggshell -- may be passed in the next few days by a female.

There are more complicated solutions, ranging from aspirating eggs thru the snake's body wall, to expressing eggs that are stuck higher up, to surgical removal. ovipositing can also be expedited sometimes by administering calcium and oxytosin.

Expressing and sometimes aspirating can be done by or under the supervision of an experienced herper; they and the other methods can also be done by a good herp vet.

good luck!
terry

Kigoma Mar 31, 2004 05:00 PM

I believe you are correct. Expressing does not work, and in fact the animal seems to react as if in pain even with gentle touch. I can detect a mass just inside that I thought to try to aspirate, but was not sure about taking one of my probes and poking around in there (fearing to cause more harm than good). In my python experience, she laid eggs in a clutch right in her cage w/o any kind of box, though a box was used on a previous clutch. So like an idiot I did not really think to put one in her cage (though there was a patch of sphagnum moss in one corner)- huge problem is that I have been having to work long hours lately and this is not getting the attention I need to give it. I fear now there is necrotic tissue somewhere as there is now an aroma near her much like that of a deceased animal- I am in panic mode!

centrewood Apr 01, 2004 11:08 AM

I had a similar problem with a Corn. The mass did firm up a bit. I had waited 96 hours (4 days) and noticed the firming towards the end and took her to a vet that aspirated the egg - within 18 hours she passed the deflated egg and the rest were out normally in 36 hours. It took a lot out of her and 4 months for her to recover.

With the smell symptom, I would suggest getting her to a vet that is familiar with herps....

Let us know what happens...

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