Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Was wondering if anyone had actual mortality rates from human envenomations by different species without treatment. For instance I understand that the Black Mamba and King Cobra are almost 100% fatal if left untreated but what about some of the other Elapids or Vipers? The thread a bit down on Atheris and watching Venom ER piqued my interest as to what exactly is my chance at survival if I'm in a 3rd world country (or the middle of the Mojave) and bitten while out exploring and far from help or hospital.
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Amor et Lux,
Ron

"The gods tolerate the human race for no other reason than our talent for bullsh1t. It's the only thing about us that doesn't bore them to tears" Tom Robbins "Villa Incognito"

The type snake
The size of the snake
The amount of venom injected
The time to treatment
The age,health,size of the victim
The type of bite I/M S/Q I/V

A baby snake is far less likely to kill you than a adult large one.
A I/V bite is the worse.
I gotta run later

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Bud

I believe that before the development of a specific AV, the coastal, or common, taipan of Australia had an entirely 100% mortality rate of its recorded bites. Some of the more potent snakes in Australia (i.e. common browns) can't make the same claim, likely due to significant differences in venom output between the two species.
-Chance

Like the other posters said, there are many variables. A king cobra or black mamba is definately capable of delivering a fatal bite if no treatment is recieved. Further more, an I/V bite can be rapidly fatal, in as few as 10 minutes because the venom directly enters the bloodstream and is carried off to the rest of the body much faster than if it was a subcutaneous bite, which is usually the case. Basically, for any venomous snake known to cause serious symptoms (necrosis, CNS effects, etc.), you want to get treatement IMMEDIATELY. This can be hard if you're in the middle of nowhere, but that's why you should take every precaution not to get bitten. And if you're gonna go herping for hots, take a friend and a cell phone. Good luck,

AP

A sub-Q bite is usually the case? I thought the majority were IM?

n/p

sub-q is the majority because for true im bite it would have to a large viper,ie bitis crotolus etc. now that said any venomous reptile with fangs larger that 3/8 of an inch is capable of piercing all the way through the skin but not necisarily a true im bite though and no elapid except maybe a large king or black mamba is capable of anything more than sub-q. now there is website on this
http://www.venomdoc.com/LD50/LD50men.html
this website is hosted by greg fry and is very informitive discussion on the subject
dave

What I find interesting is the fact that a lion can survive a full cobra bite and we can't. It can take days for them to recover from it if hyenas or something else doesn't kill them first when they're weakened. But a lion can and will survive the bite. Though I've never heard of it being from any partial immunity or anything... just their natural vitality. It really is quite amazing what some animals can survive that we can't. Take a dog for instance. My grandfather had a dog who got bit by a rattle snake twice.. once in the paw and once in the chest... He took off running like mad though and we couldn't find him for days. We thought he was dead. 5 days later he comes limping home literally covered in mud like he'd buried himself in it. He was swollen and sore but he was alive. Hated rattlesnakes ever since then though. We took him to the vet after that though and got him checked over. The vet gave him some anti-inflammatories and painkillers overnight and fluids to help flush his system the rest of the way.. but he was fine after that. Amazed the whole family.
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Lucien

1.1 Columbian Redtail Boa (BCI)(Sutekh and Isis)
2.2 Leopard geckos (2 Blizzards (Caine and Goliath), 1 het Blizzard (Lilith) and 1 Tangerine Albino (Tequila Sunrise ...Tiki for short))
0.1 Savannah Monitor (Kiros)
13 rats
1 Gerbil
2 Dogs (Loki and Storm)
2 cats (Sahara and Hercules)

It would seem animals fair better than humans when it comes to venomous snake bite. I've seen pics of cats that were tagged by rattlesnakes, and aside from some necrosis, they made full recoveries...without any antivenin...I think they give benadryl treatments to cats and dogs, but rarely A/V...although I think they are now marketing an A/V for domestic animals...

AP