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Hello, I am a layperson with a question I hope will not be construed as mockery from an outsider. I recently watched a show about king cobras in Myanmar featuring footage of a local snake-charmer performing in a public market. I wondered if anyone knows the principles at work in such techniques...is it something you frown upon or have any curiosity about? Is it specific to cobras, and if so, have you ever been tempted to try it, or is it a normal part of elapid caretaking (probably not).

Also, say I am suddenly about to be attacked by a king cobra out in the wild. Would there be any point as a last-second effort to save my life to start waving my arms around slowly before its face? So it is a ridiculous question, but I'd love to hear any insights you'd be willing to share on the subject. Thanks.
-Charmless

>>Hello, I am a layperson with a question I hope will not be construed as mockery from an outsider. I recently watched a show about king cobras in Myanmar featuring footage of a local snake-charmer performing in a public market. I wondered if anyone knows the principles at work in such techniques...is it something you frown upon or have any curiosity about? Is it specific to cobras, and if so, have you ever been tempted to try it, or is it a normal part of elapid caretaking (probably not).

You're right, it is not. Many species of cobras, mostly the Asians, will hood and hold their ground pretty impressively. They aren't so inclined to tuck and run after a flash of a hood like some of the African species. However, it's a good thing to keep in mind that a hooding cobra is a stressed snake. They don't hood for the heck of it, it's a defensive responce meaning the snake is trying to save its life. It's generally best not to 'try' to make them hood any more than you can possibly help.

>>Also, say I am suddenly about to be attacked by a king cobra out in the wild. Would there be any point as a last-second effort to save my life to start waving my arms around slowly before its face? So it is a ridiculous question, but I'd love to hear any insights you'd be willing to share on the subject. Thanks.
>>-Charmless

The likelihood of you ever even seeing a king in the wild is slim to none. The likelihood of it attacking you is even less. It is generally not a good idea to wave around bodily extremities in front of a deadly elapid unless you just want it to strike at you. If encountering a very large king in the wild, I would likely just back away slowly. The snake has enough depth perception that it will see that you are moving away, in which case it will likely then go on about its business. But actually, if I were to ever be lucky enough to see a king in the wild, I think I would do the opposite of running away.
-Chance

THanks, the second part of the question was the more facetious part, but what about the phenomenon of snake charming itself...?

Hello,

My friend actually met a snake charmer in (I believe) Indonesia. He was brought back to the man's apartment. This man performed venomoid surgeries on all of his snakes. In essence, he took out their venom. He kept them in baskets all around his living room. He had a bone that was drilled out like a funnel (I think he gave one to my friend). He would pin the snake and pour a slury mix down each snake's throat.

Many snake charmers sew the lips of their snakes shut so they can't bite. Some I hear break off the fangs. I guess it is more in the essence of tricking the public, but snake charming is illegal in many areas. I doubt the law makers were really all that concerned about the snake.

As you may know, snakes can't hear high pitched noises. The snake charmer's flute or pipe is waved back and forth, which the snake follows. It has nothing to do with music.

As chance said, no one would use african species for snake charming. Asiatic cobras hold their ground better. The black pakistan cobra is supposed to do this the best, from what I hear. Common indian or spectacled cobras will hold their ground too. You typically see these snakes... the ones with the two dots on their hood.

My friend does animal education and for the hell of it, we put a black pakistan cobra into a basket. He just tried to escape when the lid came off. We used to think that they needed to live in the basket to consider it home and stand/hood. However, now that his two black pakistan cobras have gotten bigger, they sit in a basket just like you'd see with a snake charmer.

Dave

Coming from India, this subject has special interest to me, especially since i've witnessed it many times. I never lived in India, but have visited many times. The cobra (especially the king cobra) is worshipped in most parts of India. In the Hindu religion, it is sacred. In Buddhism, it is also revered. According to legend, a cobra spread it's hood to shade Buddha from the sun while he was meditating. In return, he touched it's hood giving it the monocle marking (of the monocle cobra of course). In Hinduism, there is a similar story of Krishna touching a cobra with two fingers make a spectacle, on the Spectacled or common or Indian cobra, whichever you prefer to call it. A little off the point.

Anyway, at least in India, most cobras are not mutilated for charming purposes. Venomoid surgery at best is rarely performed, and removing fangs is a very temporary solution that is also rarely practiced. It's all about understanding physical limitations of cobras and exploiting them. Kissing a king cobra on the head is impressive, but if you keep the rest of your body out of it's strike arc, you are relatively safe (DON'T TRY THIS, THIS IS JUST HOW SNAKE CHARMERS DO THIS TRICK, AND THEY ARE STILL TAKING A RISK)...this is because cobras cant strike upwards. Their strike is in a arc toward the target. If you stay out of that arc, you don't get bitten.

Chance is right about your likeliness of seeing a king, much less being attacked by one, in the wild. I'd say the only time you'd be "attacked" is if you came across a nesting female. This of course would be a 1/1000000 chance, and I'd be incredibly envious. I've seen a few kings being used by charmers. One had a 12 foot king that was definately intact (hot) and very active and alert. He did the head kissing bit, and waved his flute around and all that good stuff. Impressive, but not something i would try. I look forward to doing some serious herping the next time i visit. Sorry to gab.

AP

I've only read about one encounter with a nesting Kc(in Orissa, India), and the snake was refered to as being placid. This is only one account, but it counts.

creep

Acharjyo, L.N. and T.S.N. Murthy. 1983. Studies on the King cobra in Orissa, India. The Snake, 15 22-31

>>I've only read about one encounter with a nesting Kc(in Orissa, India), and the snake was refered to as being placid. This is only one account, but it counts.

There are other accounts on that as well. The story of the aggressive king defending the nest seem to be exaggerated, to say the least.

The most striking aspect of kings is simply their self confidence and alertness. If disturbed, they will simply sit up and face you. Most ordinary cobras will get the Hell out of Dodge city if disturbed, and unless cornerd, kings will rear up and wait for you.

Also, they seem much more able to proces information than Asian Naja. Asian Naja will "lock on" to one adversary, and ignore almost anything or anyone else around them. If you try to take a photo of one, and it "locks on" to you, you will only get head-on shots, and it will be quite hard to distract it to get side-on shots of the head. With a king on the other hand, if you have two people on either side, it will keep turning its head from side to side and keep a very close eye on both. Waving your arms at them wil result in a king cobra latched on to one of them, if you are close enough, so that would not be a good idea. Retreating slowly and carefully would be the smart move if faced with a defensive king.

They truly are amazing snakes.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

Hi Wolfgang,
Regarding your observations while photographing Asian Naja, have you ever had kaouthia turn its head to you dilibrately? I have a WC male that will do anything and everything to show you the back of its hood. If the snake is on the floor and you move around for the front angle, he imideatly turns his back to you. Though not as frequent, I have witnessed this with my CB female also. It would appear they are trying to use their eye spot to scare you down, much like the various sp of moth/butterfly (cant remember which)with the gigantic eye spots on their wings.

Anyway, just curious if you have ever encountered such behavior. I belive once I had read a post discribeing this behavior but I have never heard it from a publication before.

Thank in advance!

Have a good weekend.

Best regards,
Jeremy

>>Hi Wolfgang,
>>Regarding your observations while photographing Asian Naja, have you ever had kaouthia turn its head to you dilibrately? I have a WC male that will do anything and everything to show you the back of its hood. If the snake is on the floor and you move around for the front angle, he imideatly turns his back to you. Though not as frequent, I have witnessed this with my CB female also. It would appear they are trying to use their eye spot to scare you down, much like the various sp of moth/butterfly (cant remember which)with the gigantic eye spots on their wings.
>>
>>Anyway, just curious if you have ever encountered such behavior. I belive once I had read a post discribeing this behavior but I have never heard it from a publication before.

Hey Jeremy,

That's a very interesting obs - never seen anything like it. By and large, N. kaouthia, like other cobras, will face you and keep both eyes on you. Yours obviously have a different idea...

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

Jeremy, Wolfgang,
Thats interesting that Wolfgang has not osberved that behavior.
I have seen that in numerous asiatic species. Kaouthia, Suphans and especially Indian Specs and Ceylonese Specs.
Watch closely next time, I normally see it after the snake has been irritated for some time. Normally, stand at attention defensively, then run like hell, and if continued to be disturbed. they will turn spread the hood and display the back of it. Many times with the specs they will lay low to the ground with hood spread and there is nothing you can do to get that snake to look at you and "display" again. The more I think about it, I see that pretty often with captive specs?
Interesting.
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It's what you learn AFTER you know it all that counts!

Terry

That is rather interesting. I only have experience with 2 individuals, and they barely even do their little chuff. Once, I had the male try to eat a hose and when I took it away from him, he rose up at least five feet off the ground in front of me. There was no problem gaining control of him afterward, it was just an awing and almost enigmatic experience.

Anyway, I was curious if you had any articles citations(in english) that you could post? My resources are limited, and I feel like there is literature out there that I may be missing. Is it just me, or is there little in the way of true natural history info other than accounts of captive WC animals in Indian zoos? I could question this all night, but I shall spare you. Thanks for any tossed bones in advance.

WSH

There is very little out there that I am aware of or have myself, unfortunately. Loads of anecdotal stuff told through multiple references, but very little that is serious. Too bad, really.

Cheers,

Wolfgang
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WW Home

One significant fact I didn't see referenced in anyone else's reply (sorry if I overlooked it): The flutes used by "snakecharmers" in Asia and Africa are usually quite ornate and fairly large. This has a very practical reason, even though the snake is oblivious to the sound it produces: cobras strike by basically falling/lunging forward toward the object of their distaste; an elongated flute, often with a fanciful, flared end, provides a very visible object at which the snake will almost invariably strike, because it is much closer than the "charmer", who is safely located a couple of feet away at the other end of the instrument. Anyone who works with venomous snakes will, I think, agree that, while there are aberrations, most species of snake are fairly predictable in any set of circumstances. The safety of the "charmer" often relies not on disfiguring the snake, but simply on having enough family-based experience with snakes to know what to expect. Best wishes & God bless! --Steve