Reptile & Amphibian Forums

well..i was feeding emma and i caught a glimpse of what i thought was a fang...couldn't get a clear shot though...this was the best i could get to...is this a fang?...

i don't know if the pic showed...i can't see it....bleh..lemme try again..

i know that the picture doesn't actually show the fang...but is that meaty part connected to the fang?...not sure...

What you have circled is the 'sheath' that holds the fang., kinda like gums, but that move back to reveale the when he bites in the pink.

sort of. they are "rear fanged" colubrids. check the archives and you wil find several discussions about hognose venom and its potency or lack of. EP
-----
Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2 corns(normal, candy cane)
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2 fish
1 rat
5 cats

hehe...i know about the venom potency and stuff...the infamous enlarged duvernoy gland etc....but my question is...is that the membrane that surrounds the fang?...like theoretically would it be located around that region...i haven't seen any pics of an opened mouth hog before...and ive searched for a while...or someone milking a hog..which would be idiotic since they dont exactly expel venom thru their fangs...well..thanks though!...any more people think what im looking at is a fang?

np
-----
Occupants not paying rent:
7 balls
2 corns(normal, candy cane)
1 pueblan milk
1 everglades rat
1 cal. king
1 gray band king
1 w. hognose
1 bearded dragon
2 fish
1 rat
5 cats

Jason Penney has a nice shot of the enlarged rear teeth of a Mexican Hog on his "Snakes of Hudspeth County, TX" page. I put a link to the photo below (didn't want to just insert his photo here without permission).

I don't think the enlarged rear teeth on a Hognosed Snake are grooved, and therefore they really don't qualify as "fangs". They are simply enlarged rear maxillary teeth.

Jason Penney's hog "fangs" picture

-----
Chris Harrison

Alright Chris, Where have you been? Recent discussions with Dr Fry revealed to us that hognoses are every bit venomous. Along the same lines, the "enlarged" teeth are every bit of fangs, grooved or not grooved.

I do appreciate the link to the picture, since I remember it from way back when and wished that I had saved it!

click here for the link

-----
...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Well, great, this relates back to a discussion on the general snake forum about the definition of a fang. Now I'm really confused and I think I'm leaning toward the dog's opinion on the issue. (the dog says she has fangs)
-----
Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

FANG

1 a : a long sharp tooth: as (1) : one by which an animal's prey is seized and held or torn (2) : one of the long hollow or grooved and often erectile teeth of a venomous snake b : one of the chelicerae of a spider at the tip of which a poison gland opens

2 : the root of a tooth or one of the processes or prongs into which a root divides

3 : a projecting tooth or prong
-----
Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
"Indigo"

1.0 Saharan Sand Boa
"Frodo"

0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa
"Arwen"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

There is often a difference between the dictionary definition of words and the way we use them 'scientifically' when referring to reptiles. I figured this sort of thing would happen when I started the discussion. You'd never know the truuuuue difference between venomous and poisonous, for example, by looking it up in a dictionary. In fact, it appears that merriam-webster uses them to define each other, although it also contains the techincal definition of venomous.
The dog is still insisting that she has fangs, though, and as she's threatening to bite me to prove the point perhaps I'll just... OW!
-----
Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!

Since Websters has more than one definition - I agree, your dog has fangs. Tell him his right and give him a treat!
-----
Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"

1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"

1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
"Indigo"

1.0 Saharan Sand Boa
"Frodo"

0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa
"Arwen"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

How long does a tooth have to be to be a "fang"?

My canines are slightly longer than my incisors and premolars. Are they fangs? What about cichlids that develop those little teeth on their "lips"? Fangs again?

The problem with that definition is it doesn't delimit what is and what isn't a fang.

That's why I prefer the biological definition.
-----
Chris Harrison

i have to agree with Chris H...cuz by that definition elephants worthogs...hippos...have fangs...well...they are commonly known as tusks...but then trying to define tusks will start a whole other thread...hehe...so i would still go by the biological definiton...

/
-----
Check Out My Albums

1.0 Ball Python
"Aragorn"
1.0 Kenyan Sand Boa
"Gimli"
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake
"Indigo"
1.0 Saharan Sand Boa
"Frodo"
0.1 Rough-Scale Sand Boa
"Arwen"

0.1 Australian Cattle Dog/Pointer
"Kira"

I would say the true definition of a fang is enlarged teeth that aid in the delivery of venom, in which case hognoses have fangs.
-----
Wildlife dies without a sound, the only voice it has... is yours.

...the oldest task in human history: to live on a piece of land without spoiling it."
Aldo Leopold (1938)

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

I would recommend reading Dr. Kenneth Kardong's research on Snake Toxins and Venoms: An Evolutionary Perspective in the March 1996 issue of Herpetologica. He discusses much about the Duvernoy's gland in colubrids, including H.nasicus, and concludes that while some colubrids possess the gland, there is conjecture as to whether the oral secretion from H.nasicus is actually venom. He suggests that H. nasicus possesses an oral secretion that is toxic, and part of the research findings stem from a discussion over the actual delivery of venom from snakes. Obviously when compared to the venom delivery system of viperidae, H. nasicus is entirely different and the discussion goes further to explain, the delivery system of the Duvernoy's gland is a very ineffecient system for killing prey. Kardong studied the toxic properties of H. nasicus, finding that the oral secretion largely consists of protolypase proteins, but suggests the final word on declaring that H. nasicus uses employs this toxin for simply immobilizing prey, is perhaps premature, and further believes the secretion might have several biological functions that are not fully understood such as quieting the prey item, aid in digestion, etc.
I have a friend who has bred H. nasicus for over 15 years, who believes what we see as a fang in H. nasicus, is actually a bony projection, and not an actual fang. I personally think he is full of it, but that is my opinion. Anyway, cool snakes.
Vedica

She stopped caring.... she's back to sniffing her own paws and then acting suprised.
-----
Eryx - All the fun of a boa in a convenient pocket size!