Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Alterna/ mexicana
Snake is light grey with white and black outline around orange saddles with sun patches in the middle. Iris is brown. At first glance I thought Mexicana San Luis Potosi. Then after some research I thought greeri. I'm at a loss. The individual I got him from was told Alterna.

I would say mex mex or thayeri. You have to take into consideration, these were all once considered the same snakes, and some still believe they are too closely related to be valid sub-species. There is really know way of knowing unless you found out who the breeder was. Just know that you have a beautiful snake.

Brandon Osborne

Thanks Brandon for the reply. I'm just puzzled by this snake's origin. Food for thought. The reason for me to figure out the origin is for my own gradification as well as for poss. breeding purposes later down the road. Ex. Let's just say it's Mexicana would it be wrong to breed this snake with another Mexicana such as a thayeri,greeri,mex-mex,nuevo leon scientifically speaking we are using hobbyist terms here, but this terms are accepted as to designate geograghic regions. I'm sure if we were to test blood of some of these specimens in the wild/p trade there would be some bleed over "mix". I promise you if I can not id this snakes origin I will not breed it. However, if I were to breed it with another Mexicana would it be considered a hybrid? just a thought. sorry for gettng wordy.

I would venture to say, it's probably a mex mex. IT has the typical pattern of the squarish blotches with the bands dropping to the sides. I would try to dig a little further into the history if at all possible. You could breed it to another mex mex and see what happens. I'm sure some on this forum will be unhappy with that remark, but you'll know what the outcome is if all the babies look like the animal you have.....and you are right about the overlapping genetics of these animals. Good luck.

Brandon

Erika,
I believe your snake to be L. Mexicana Thayeri (Nuevo Leon or Variable Kingsnake). I have produced a few that resemble Alterna and Mexicana Mexicana.
There is one area that Mexicana intergrade and that is the southern regions of San Luis Potosi where the Ruthveni(Queretaro) intergrade with Mex Mex. The Mex Mex from this are tend to look more "milksnake" with wider red saddles that resemble bands.
If you breed two separate species of Mexicana for exaqmple: (Thayeri X Greeri) you would not actually produce hybrid offspring but simply offspring that are intergrades that do not occur naturally in the wild.
Nonetheless, Very nice snake.
Here is a Mexicana that is a direct descendant from wild caught Mex Mex confiscated at the border.
John Lassiter

John, thanks for the reply. I'm sure this topic has been talked about in the past. I find the mexicana species complex but fascinating just because of the variables involved over a vast range. Thanks for pointing out the inter mix of mex-mex and ruthveni. I was in the market for a pure mex-mex and I have been to shows that mex-mex was listed, but the color phase was not of "lack of term" pure mex mex it looked like a milksnake phase mex-mex. I thought that ruthveni was thought to come from or intergraded with L. triangulum. Hopefully some day with luck & $ I will be able to visit the mexican states of Tamaulipas,S.L.potosi, Nuevo Leon etc. I'm just curious as to why L. Mexicana has so much color variations. What does a species gain especially in the wild? Breeding variable kings is like (christmas time) you can't wait to see what you get? by the way beautiful mex-mex.

The thing about mexicana, especially the thayeri is that you never know what is going to hatch. It is like christmas when they are hatching. Thus the name "the variable kingsnake". Here is a clutch of Thayeri from last year.

I would say mex-mex X something else. The tri-lobed red blotch on the head and the squarish red saddles are classic mex-mex but the saddles are spaced too far apart and too low in number for me to think it's pure mex-mex.

I still believe that Erika's snake is Thayeri. Thayeri are capable of producing offspring that very much resemble Alterna and Mexicana Mexicana.
At one time these animals were thought to be one species. Until recently they have been separated into sub species.
I still believe that Alterna should be L. Mexicana Alterna.

John Lassiter
Here is my favorite Mex Mex:

john, that is a spectacular M&M. Are you working currently with M&M's at this time. If so do you attend any shows in PA? I've been searching for the longest time for a M&M with that nice y patch and for a lack of term "pure" M&M. I have seen many M&M's, which I'm sure were Mexicana, but probably were not 100% pure (ruthveni/mex) milksnake phases. I appreciate everyones comments. I'm going to continue to figure out its origin. I totally agree with everyones assessment in L. mexicana wether or not thayeri,greeri,nuevo leon,mex-mex remains a mystery hopefully not for long. Nonetheless, I'm extremely happy to have him as a new addition and truly appreciate him for putting me through this perplexing probably neverending mexicana complex taxonomy issue.

Erika,
Drop me an email and I can show you some more pics and talk to you about some of my projects.
Here is my email address: jlassiterjr54@grandecom.net
John Lassiter

It's kind of pointless to speculate but I would say some type of mexicana X alterna. Beutiful snake non the less.