Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi All,

I've been looking through lots of websites to get a general idea of how to go about starting a vivaria. However, I'm stuck on a couple of issues...

1) I'd like to make the cage myself. I've had experience doing so, but only for desert species - hence the humidity factor can be ignored. Are there any problems in making a vivaria out of wood (and glass, where needed... and screen top)? How does the wood need to be treated?

2) I'm not sure how to deal with overflow from the daily "rain". I've seen two options thus far... one being a sump pump, and the other a collection basin. The sump pump seems prefereable, but the website I checked was very unclear on exactly how to make one - and to be honest, what exactly it does...

3) Does anyone have any experience with the "Rainmaker" systems? This seems to me the best option, especially because I don't feel like misting a tank twice a day. A partially self-sufficient system seems ideal.

4) Lighting.... what is necessary? I'm thinking of housing day geckos. So... heat lamp. Check. UV Light. Check. What else... Will the plants require something beyond the UV light? Will the light emmitted from the plant light harm the reptiles, or vice versa?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.
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Da Da Dee Da Da Da Doo Do, Goulet.

Wood can be used for humid vivaria. Treatment can be anything from plastic linings, to paint to epoxy. I know of aquaria made of epoxy-sealed plywood that have held saltwater for over 20 years. If they'll hold saltwater they'll handle any misting system for herps.

I'm not crazy about the use of a submerisible pump for water collection. I could go on and on about it but I won't. I prefer to incorporate a floor drain or perhaps a tray that slides underneat the cage.

I've heard the Rainmaker system is very nice. Probably overkill if you have only a few cages, but still very nice.

A light suitable for the lizard species you keep should be sufficient to stimulate growth in many houseplants. Additional plant lights probably not necessary.

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I've been looking through lots of websites to get a general idea of how to go about starting a vivaria. However, I'm stuck on a couple of issues...

1) I'd like to make the cage myself. I've had experience doing so, but only for desert species - hence the humidity factor can be ignored. Are there any problems in making a vivaria out of wood (and glass, where needed... and screen top)? How does the wood need to be treated?

2) I'm not sure how to deal with overflow from the daily "rain". I've seen two options thus far... one being a sump pump, and the other a collection basin. The sump pump seems prefereable, but the website I checked was very unclear on exactly how to make one - and to be honest, what exactly it does...

3) Does anyone have any experience with the "Rainmaker" systems? This seems to me the best option, especially because I don't feel like misting a tank twice a day. A partially self-sufficient system seems ideal.

4) Lighting.... what is necessary? I'm thinking of housing day geckos. So... heat lamp. Check. UV Light. Check. What else... Will the plants require something beyond the UV light? Will the light emmitted from the plant light harm the reptiles, or vice versa?

i've set up many vivs like what your speaking of. mostly for aboreal salamanders or frogs - geckos. what species are you planning on?

i would go with a false bottom set up, but it really depends on the type of glass encloser and your budget. i build my own glass tanks from time to time and it's about 350.00 for each, and they are only about 20 x 20 x 20. you might want the top of partialy glass and depending on your method of creating air circluation, maybe the whole thing? i build the false bottom system to include the air as well.

I suggest you call around for a glass shop to give you prices on a set or peices. maybe two that are 18 x 24 and two that are 24 x 24 on that is 24 x 24 with holes and tempered and on that will set on top. oh, and 1/4" thick wil do and get some thinner "stips" to help the the sqaureness of the tank. LOL...like that made sense.

once you get what ever sizes you want, not my example, you can make jigs to hold the glass. finding sites on like that have blue prints for this will help.

you will need strong lights for the moss. i think a good compact set would be fine, but again, it depends on the size you want and the critters you're planning to house. let me know.

Thanks to both,

Regarding the species - I'm thinking some variety of day gecko. A 20 gallon would be good for all species but giant day, in that case I'd have to increase the size. Is this okay? I've read that day gecko's require "well-planted" vivaria - I assume that a real arboreal setup would be great.

As for construction, I just drew up a (very quick) plan - but it lays out what I'm planning... The back will be wood, as will parts of the side. All the interior wood will be covered in coco panels... and then epiphytes (I might have the name wrong, but plants that grow on trees... some bromeliads, orchids, and hopefully some vines). The top, I think at least, should be screen for ventilation's sake. But will it let out too much humidity? Anyway, I'll leave my questions at that.

If the image doesn't work, try here:
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/405ca970_11c53/bc/9ff3/__sr_/9c20.jpg?phFgjbABoFFjLUlO

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Da Da Dee Da Da Da Doo Do, Goulet.

I don't claim to be a day gecko expert, I can only speak from my personal experience. However I had great success years ago with a pair of giant day geckos using a 29 gal aquarium with a regular hood (the kind with one uv tube and a flip up lid in front (not screened). I had borken out a section of the hood near the back and put a lamp for heat going through a screen mesh, then another tab I broke out on the other end for ventalation, it was about 2" x 3" and covered with screen. I monitored the tempature, but not the humidity. I had live plants including sansaverias (which they LOVE), bromiliads planted in soil, small palmlike plants, etc. I used a large bamboo tube for egg laying, as well as vines, rocks, and a large splinter of wood. My breeder pair thrived in there for 2 years before I had to get rid of them. I probably got 8 clutches of eggs out of the female, and the male got about 11" in length! I also used broken clay shards under the soil for drainage and misted once or twice a day.

The only problem I ever had were tiny white bugs living in the soil after a while, which I attributed to failing to sterilize the wood before I put it in there. Good luck! I loved my day geckos and will get another pair asap. My male would even lick baby food from my finger and "bark" at me when I pulled my finger away...lol! They're great little animals.

those white things are nemitodes. if they were from the soil they would be fine as they help turn over the waste to a plant-usable product like earth worms do. other nemotodes are bad, like those in the guts of reptiles. i've never sterilzed any wood as a nitrogene cycle is needed to fasilitate the naturalistic vivariums needs. just a note on your white bugs...8-)

hmmmm..I'm sure they helped with the breakdown of organic matter, but I'm not sure they were nematodes. Aren't nematodes very very small wormlike creatures? These looked more like white non-flying gnats, except smaller.

Anyway, I plan to try using the beetle stage of superworms (I forget the name) in my next setup, I've heard from Tokay owners that they don't eat the beetles because of a defensive smell from the beetle, and the beetles eat the fecal matter. Probably the same case with Day Geckos, and I'm sure that would help with organic matter.

COol! phelSuma klemmeri (sp) are great. nice size for that 20 gallon tank. i would, if you're building your own, gty for something 18w x 18-24d x 24h and make the sides screen, the top glass and make sure the temp and uv were good. cp lights work great! you could do just fine though with a screen top but make sure the wire is at least 1/8" apart oher wise the screen will filter out the uvb. for that tank though, anything bigger then the P.Klemmeri, IMO would be too cramped.

Thanks Peyote for the tips, I'm looking forward to eventually owning these beaut's.

And thanks Neuromantic.. but one thing - what's a cp light?
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Da Da Dee Da Da Da Doo Do, Goulet.

Compacts give lots of light, lots, lower wattage and a bit more heat. cp's are those U-shaped tube lights, or coils but coild that screw in don't really give off the right amount of uvb and uva. halogene are good but get really hot and depending on the light, could give off uvC which is bad, Halides are BrighT...wow..like the sun and get hot. hope this helps. compacts are good for most applications, do some homework though as some companies like to charge a lot for a little image of a lizard on the same package that cost twice a less at the hardware store.

deven

Okay... this might be a really stupid question but it needs asking. With a well-planted vivarium.. can the lizards find the food? Seriously. I throw a couple crickets in there, are they just going to disappear in the undergrowth? I'm thinking that eventually they will climb a branch, and bam! No more damn crickets. But there seems to be no real way to monitor how much my (future) lizards are eating.

Should I be worried about this?
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Da Da Dee Da Da Da Doo Do, Goulet.

food items like crickets like to hide so your answer really hides( had to) in the landscape you build. i have always made a small cave of stone that a carrot is placed in case a few crickets aren't eaten right away. i have also designed the landscape to offer no hiding spaces except that cave. it's kind of detailed so again, it depends on the landscape. use enough silicone to seal gaps, use fill-dirt to take up large spaces and when using moss, be sure to wet the soil or use a water gel to help keep the moss from "puffing" so crickets don't burrow under it and such. don't worry about a dead cricket, the micro fauna will eat it later.

deven

Day geckos are Extremely alert. Even the slightest bit of motion and they are on it like stink on...well you know. They are extremely fast moving too. I never really had a problem with uneaten critters unless the geckos were full, so you just have to figure out how much they will eat. My large male usually ate 4 crickets, and the female 3. But like I said, when they are hungry, they will zoom over to the cricket the instant they see it move.

Incidentally, I also fed mine moths, grasshoppers, roaches, and my male would eat an occasional anole.