Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I started using these about two months ago as well and have only seen improvements in my dragons that are roughly 7-8 months old. The only difference that I have seen is there does seem to be more urate when they poop. However, they aren't constipated, and the urate isn't chalky like some of you have experienced. I alos have to add that I was advised by a person on this board that it wouldn't be too much to keep supplementing with repcal d3 cal and vit while using the Trex but I didn't do this I only used the trex because of the warnings I had read against oversupplementaton. I also use 8.0 flourescent UVB with another regular bulb in the fixture and a 75 watt reptile basking light at one end in a silver dome and a 60 watt soft white light in a white dome on the other to keep the temps right and the white dome seems to give better light intensity. I have been using ICB on my crickets twice a day and vgf on the salads once a day because they usually don't finish the second salad.

My questions are revolving around what others are feeding. Rob I read your experiences below and it said that your larger dragon was more affected than the smaller but the smaller was eating more silkies. Does this mean that the larger dragon wasn't eating any live prey? I wonder if the amount of juices that are in the silkies kept the smaller dragon from becoming constipated?

Mine eat a ton of crix. I go through 2000 in less than 2 weaks just the 2 of them. I don't feed the pellets and that is another question I have. I know that when I used to work out alot and was drinking protien shakes those darn shakes would plug me up bad. I wonder if with the pellets, protiens in the supps, along with live feeders such as crix maybe hte protiens are plugging these dragons up? It seems to make sense though I"M NO EXPERT.

PLEASE DONT HTINK I AM ATTACKING ANYONE!!! I ONLY OFFER THIS AS "FOOD FOR THOUHGT" NOT AS FACT OR TRUTH.

I jsut don't understand how some dragons are doing well on these and some aren't and thought I'd throw my experience and opinions out there for some feedback. Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Robert Wood

My questions are revolving around what others are feeding. Rob I read your experiences below and it said that your larger dragon was more affected than the smaller but the smaller was eating more silkies. Does this mean that the larger dragon wasn't eating any live prey? I wonder if the amount of juices that are in the silkies kept the smaller dragon from becoming constipated?

Mine eat a ton of crix. I go through 2000 in less than 2 weaks just the 2 of them. I don't feed the pellets and that is another question I have. I know that when I used to work out alot and was drinking protien shakes those darn shakes would plug me up bad. I wonder if with the pellets, protiens in the supps, along with live feeders such as crix maybe hte protiens are plugging these dragons up? It seems to make sense though I"M NO EXPERT.

The larger dragon (Buster) wasn't eating very much live pray. Maybe a 3 big silkies a week and the same on the supers. He also didn't seem to want to drink near as much water as the smaller one (Sahara). Keep in mind Sahara is a late starter and growing like mad while Buster has slowed waaaay down on growth. I hadn't seem much in Buster's stool change other than the urates. It looked as if he was still well hydrated. Sahara's crap didn't change at all.

As far as the pellets go Buster didn't eat a lot of them but some were gone about every other day. Those were moistened and sprinkled. Most of his diet has been from salad.

You know, for what it's worth, I think the way this stuff is measured might have a lot to do with the problems that are happening. What exactly is a sprinkle or a dust? How easy is it to tell if there's a lot of big clumps of something on a leaf compared to just a dust? One of the methods described has been to put some of the supps in a plastic bag along with the greens and shake to coat everything.

I guess I just don't see how a supplement with all this stuff in it can be considered safe to administer every day when there is absolutely no precise way of measuring how much the animal is getting. Or if it is measurable there's no indication of it on the bottle.

We're talking about an animal that weighs 400 grams. I would think a major deviation from the optimal amounts of a certain vitamin or other substance would be very easy to accomplish. Make this deviation everyday and how much have you deviated in a months time? Just a thought.

BTW, what right do you think you have insulting my husbandry and diet this way? Don't you think I take care of my dragons very well? I am appalled at the insinuations that are billowing out of your post against me. I have reported you to abuse and have asked that you be kicked out of this forum. You mangy beast!!

J/K, nice to have you back Robert! Did you make some good money out there? Everything work out alright?
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Rob Talkington

>>My questions are revolving around what others are feeding. Rob I read your experiences below and it said that your larger dragon was more affected than the smaller but the smaller was eating more silkies. Does this mean that the larger dragon wasn't eating any live prey? I wonder if the amount of juices that are in the silkies kept the smaller dragon from becoming constipated?
>>
>>Mine eat a ton of crix. I go through 2000 in less than 2 weaks just the 2 of them. I don't feed the pellets and that is another question I have. I know that when I used to work out alot and was drinking protien shakes those darn shakes would plug me up bad. I wonder if with the pellets, protiens in the supps, along with live feeders such as crix maybe hte protiens are plugging these dragons up? It seems to make sense though I"M NO EXPERT.
>>
>>The larger dragon (Buster) wasn't eating very much live pray. Maybe a 3 big silkies a week and the same on the supers. He also didn't seem to want to drink near as much water as the smaller one (Sahara). Keep in mind Sahara is a late starter and growing like mad while Buster has slowed waaaay down on growth. I hadn't seem much in Buster's stool change other than the urates. It looked as if he was still well hydrated. Sahara's crap didn't change at all.
>>
>>As far as the pellets go Buster didn't eat a lot of them but some were gone about every other day. Those were moistened and sprinkled. Most of his diet has been from salad.
>>
>>You know, for what it's worth, I think the way this stuff is measured might have a lot to do with the problems that are happening. What exactly is a sprinkle or a dust? How easy is it to tell if there's a lot of big clumps of something on a leaf compared to just a dust? One of the methods described has been to put some of the supps in a plastic bag along with the greens and shake to coat everything.
>>
>>I guess I just don't see how a supplement with all this stuff in it can be considered safe to administer every day when there is absolutely no precise way of measuring how much the animal is getting. Or if it is measurable there's no indication of it on the bottle.
>>
>>We're talking about an animal that weighs 400 grams. I would think a major deviation from the optimal amounts of a certain vitamin or other substance would be very easy to accomplish. Make this deviation everyday and how much have you deviated in a months time? Just a thought.
>>
>>BTW, what right do you think you have insulting my husbandry and diet this way? Don't you think I take care of my dragons very well? I am appalled at the insinuations that are billowing out of your post against me. I have reported you to abuse and have asked that you be kicked out of this forum. You mangy beast!!
>>
>>J/K, nice to have you back Robert! Did you make some good money out there? Everything work out alright?
>>-----
>>Rob Talkington
-----
Rob Talkington

"I guess I just don't see how a supplement with all this stuff in it can be
considered safe to administer every day when there is absolutely no precise way
of measuring how much the animal is getting. Or if it is measurable there's no
indication of it on the bottle."

I'll try to help here...It not a supplement, it is a whole food, complete, balanced, etc. All the nutrients are present in ratios that balance the dust and make it a complete food, not unlike the pellets. So it does not matter how much your dragon eats, same as pelets...the nutrients are all there in the same ratios. Would youworry if your dragon ate a ton of pellets...it is the same thing with the dust. That being said, you dragon won't eat a pile of the dust(though it would be fine to do so, but rather dry), this is where the greens come in. The greens act as a means to deliver the dust/food. So the real concern when using the vgf or vmf, should be whether you are using enough not to much.

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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

Obviously with some different ingredients than the pellets, though.
-----
Rob Talkington

.
>>Obviously with some different ingredients than the pellets, though.
>>-----
>>Rob Talkington
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Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

the manufacture of the two are different. The pellets are a blend of dry ingredients that have water added to it and then go through an extrusion proccess to form the pellets. The dusts are the dry ingredients blended and that's it...the most processing that goes on is milling some of the ingredients.

>>.
>>>>Obviously with some different ingredients than the pellets, though.
>>>>-----
>>>>Rob Talkington
>>-----
>>Bill DiFabio
>>Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
>>Email Me
>>"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
>> not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung
-----
Bill DiFabio
Garden State Herpetoculture...website to follow...
Email Me
"The pendulum of the mind alternates between sense and nonsense,
not between right and wrong." - Carl Jung

My dragon was very fond of eating dust that wasn't on anything lol.He would always lick the repto-cal off the bottom of his food dish after all the food was gone.