Reptile & Amphibian Forums

About a year back I found an alligator lizard by a lake I go to every summer... At the time it reminded me of a skink and thought it was such until a picture linked it to a California Alligator Lizard, which is what I belive he/she is now.

I have had this guy with no issues what so ever, perfectly healthy... Though not fond of people... Cant say I blame him being that since he was wild, I have pretty well left him as such and not tried very hard to tame him... He's just pretty to look at...

But recently a friend of mine caught a lizard of some sort by a wood pile... Knowing my obession with herps, he brought it to me. At first glance, it was a big, dark, mean thing which seemed to fit a skink in look and size and build. I didnt have a cage ready for such an arrival so I ended up making a divider in the cage for my orignal alligator lizard, this seemed to almost work execpt for the fact they would do anything to get to each other. I wasnt about to find out what would happen if I could help it (note, this was perfectly humane in terms of cage size and lighting and heat, both are under a foot andf the cage is about the size of a 55 gallon... though homemade).

In any case, they find each other and the next thing I see if them laying on top of each other and basking nicely... I couldnt belive my eyes, but I left them be and took out the divider. It has been about 3 or 4 days now and nothing ill has come about. I belive they are the same species, but are they really? And are they both male? female? mix? Any idea at all?

And are they really CA-Alligator Lizards? I know you cant anwser that last one based on what I said, but if enough people ask or email me, I will post or send pics. Lovely guys though, and eat like pigs... Mean as hell though...

The fine scales on the sides (dorsolateral folds) distinguish anguid / alligator lizards from skinks.

I order to determine species, locality data would help a lot. There are two very similar species of alligator lizard (Northern & Southern) occuring in California each of which is further divided into subspecies. In some cases, ID's can be made based solely on locality but, there is some range overlap.

One thing to watch out for since you didn't quarentine the new arrival is mites. These infest many als and an infestation can lead to fatal blood loss if not cuaght in time. They are about the size and color of a grain of pepper and in heavy infestations can be seen crawling on your lizard. Otherwise they like to hide in the ears, corners of the mouth, by the cloaca and in the arm pits.

Mature males can be distinguished from females by their broader heads. In the attached pic, the male is the brownish guy and the female is the gray one.

Hope this helps,
Alice

Well lets see, first off, those two in the pic look EXACTLY like the two I have now.

In any case one was caught in the moutains (sierra nevada), at around... Well I want to say 10,000 feet but I could be off. If you know where cherry lake is, thats where.

And the other, most recent, in the central valley. Mid central valley (merced).

Thank you for the help!

Well, your guy from the Central Valley would be the San Diego subspecies of the southern alligator lizard (Elgaria multicarinata webbii).

I couldn't find a good map of the lake you mentioned. If it is south of San Francisco it could also be a San Diego, if it's north of San Franciso it could be a California (E. m. multicarinata). The ranges on these southern als overlap those of the Sierra alligator lizard (Elgaria coerulea palmeri), a subspecies of the northern alligator lizard. An easy way to tell the difference between the northern and southern species flip them over; if the dark lines on the belly appear to rum between the scales you've got a northern, if they appear to run down the center of the scales you've got a southern.

Hope this helps,
Alice

These dang things are hard to catch! I dont know how I got him in the first place...

But in any case, by what you said about the scales, looks like I have a southern!

By the way, since I could very well be wrong, here is a map that sort of shows where cherry lake is:

http://imgs.maps.yahoo.com/mapimage?MAPData=QMrgDfhyzy1.afq4ZNTNbIrkAg21CDF9M48YPAAE2WSIeN8QfylaBlxUtZhgxHNsP4o8q.GkDb9wbfQSVZHoLXPV9rnP8rpwh03DBALo3yPENJ1aAXSCxOplHtoRJEuafAJXtZpdIJk-

Not sure if the link works or not, but if it does...

See the three lakes my Yosemite park? And how two are actually IN the park? Well the third that is right on the edge but isnt within the park bounds is cherry lake... Its almost parallel to san fran actually...

I checked out your map and since your Cherry Lake individual is a southern it is probably a San Diego, according to the range map in Robert Stebbins' guide Western Reptiles and Amphibians.

If you're interested, this site: http://www.californiaherps.com/ has some great pics of the various subspecies.

-Alice

Lovely? Eat like pigs? Mean as hell? LOL I can say in my time I have had a few S. Aligator Lizards that fit the aformentioned discription LOL That I would say is most likly what you have. I have been lead to believe that here in N. Cali we also have Mediteranian
Foot Hill Reptile Relocation, Research and Conservation

Damn computers. For spome reson it cut out half my post. Anyway I have never observed a Mediteranian one myself but anyway. It would be great for you to take a picture and post it here so we can give you a positive I.D. If not you can always mail me a picture at acra@caltel.com. Keep up the good work.
Foot Hill Reptile Relocation, Research and Conservation

I should be able to take some pictures today and put them up either later on or tonight...

And what a treat it would be to have a rather unique species! If only it were true for me lol

Jason,

I've never heard of this species / subspecies. Do you have any info on its taxonomy, range, etc?

Thanks,
Alice