Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Elaphe radiata, native to southeast Asia. After looking at pics, I'm fairly certain that one has just shown up at a local pet shop. They think it may be an African Cave-dwelling snake (Ridleyi?), but the head markings, striped anterior and unpatterned posterior tell me it's a radiata. Very attractive snake. I'm unfamiliar with this species, and there doesn't seem to be much out there about them. I'd appreciate it if someone could tell me a little more about them (disposition, feeding habits, etc. ) . Thanks,
-----
MichaelB

Here is a link with photos of the snake in question. The photo I have posted is located at www.regalreptil.com. Good luck.

RATSNAKES Genus Elaphe

Here is a picture of a Cave Dwelling Rat snake. From what I read in your post about, with the snake having a striped tail, I think that they are correct about what kind of snake it is.

If you do a google search, there are plenty of care sheets for both types of snakes.

Sorry, I misread your post. You may be right. Compare the photos. The snakes do not look a bit alike.

Thanks for the pics. Yep, it's a radiata. Boldly striped anterior (toward head), unpatterned posterior, and the head markings are a dead giveaway. I couldn't find anything close to it in the rat snake photo gallery, so I posted the above inquiry. Then I did a forum search, and it turns out there are quite a few of 'em out there. Also, the taxonomy apparently is somewhat controversial based on threads suggesting they may in fact be more closely related to racers than rat snakes. It's possible, I suppose, but with weakly-keeled middorsal scales and a strong, muscular body I'd say there's definitely an Elaphe connection. (He's an ornery cuss, too!)
-----
MichaelB

Everyone I have ever seen or heard about has been a feisty snake (to put it nicely!).
-----
Chris Harrison

Radiata are pretty bad tempered, mine used to bite all the time, but as they get older they seem to have calmed down, and now only
bite very selectively, normally around feeding time, they ignore the mouse, and go right for my finger, they seem pretty smart to, watch every move you make.
Definately steer clear of wild caught tho!

Well, tell us,did you buy him? Has he bitten you yet? ;~)

No, and almost. I didn't buy him, but I had a chance to examine him up close and personal. Close enough to get slimed (musked), and I nearly got tagged. He does seem to be a very attentive snake, watching every move - often with his mouth held wide open. (Now I know how Hogboy got that pic of the albino. Great shot, man!)
-----
MichaelB

Yep, the radiated ratsnakes aren't a rat snake at all. Elaphe was a taxonomically dumping ground for a large collection of snakes that only superficially resembled each other. It turns out that the radiateds are much more genetically related to racers than to the conventionally regarded rat snakes, and thus they are now in the genus Coelognathus. This is just as the Colubridae family was a dumping ground for what turned out to be a half dozen or so families that were utterly unrelated to each other (and in some cases are much more closely related to cobras than corn snakes)

Cheers
B
-----
Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
Deputy Director
Australian Venom Research Unit
University of Melbourne

www.venomdoc.com

Greetings, Dr. Fry...

I'm going to have to take the opposite view on Coelognathus for the sake of argument. I believe the radiateds are ratsnakes for the following reasons.

First, we have such a broad view of what a ratsnake is. The radiateds have a lot of ratsnake characteristics, and many of these characteristics are shared with other ratsnake genera. Many snakes are called ratsnakes that aren't closely related to each other and is a pretty accepted thing as far as the 'ratsnake' name goes. We'd have to get very narrow to exclude any species not in the Elaphe/Pantherophis groups.

Second, all of the Asian ratsnakes have some racer-like characteristics too. The further south you go the more racer-like they seem to be, but I believe they are all in the same branch of the colubrid tree, very close to the racer branch, btw. The American ratsnakes seem to have lost the racer-like qualities, and some of the other characteristics, but we can't argue that they aren't related to the Asians.

In the most recent taxonomic revisions/literature the ratsnakes (old Elaphe) have been split even more into new and revised genera. The (Elaphe) species I now work with are in the genera: Orthriophis, Oreophis, Euprepiophis, Elaphe, Zamenis, and Pantherophis. That's on top of the Coelognathus and other genera that were created in the recent past. I still consider them all ratsnakes though, and I definately think they are all related.

I have worked with Coelognathus (Elaphe) radiatus in the past and they are a very fiesty snake, as are other sps. in that group. The Oreophis porphyracea are very fiesty too and noone is saying they are a racer and not a ratsnake. ASAMOF, I think the O. p. coxi are more closely related to the Coelognathus than other ratsnakes (my opinion). I also think the leopard rats, Z. situla, are close to the racers and have a lot of racer characteristics. Finally, there are some other sps. that are not assigned to a genus, yet, such as prasina and frenata (still in Elaphe), that should be put in another genus, like Gonyosoma, that are called ratsnakes. In my opinion, they are all ratsnakes in the evolutionary scheme of things.

Hope you don't mind the post, but I think there's definately going to be two sides on this issue. Thanks for listening.

PS: I'm not arguing that the Elaphe wasn't a 'dumping ground' for various sps. Much work needs to be done in this area. Also, Coelognathus wasn't part of the testing, as far as I know, in the last review (Utiger, et al, 2002). Coelognathus is obviously related to the racers, but so are many other ratsnakes, as the two groups are very close on the evolutionary tree. I think we'll find this genus to be quite primitive, with characteristics of both groups, if tested with equal numbers of sps. from ratsnakes and racers.

Terry

>>Yep, the radiated ratsnakes aren't a rat snake at all. Elaphe was a taxonomically dumping ground for a large collection of snakes that only superficially resembled each other. It turns out that the radiateds are much more genetically related to racers than to the conventionally regarded rat snakes, and thus they are now in the genus Coelognathus. This is just as the Colubridae family was a dumping ground for what turned out to be a half dozen or so families that were utterly unrelated to each other (and in some cases are much more closely related to cobras than corn snakes)
>>
>>
>>Cheers
>>B
>>-----
>>Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
>>Deputy Director
>>Australian Venom Research Unit
>>University of Melbourne
>>
>>www.venomdoc.com

-----
Ratsnake Haven: Elaphe dione, bimaculata, mandarina, conspicillata, porphyracea coxi, t. taeniura, situla, emoryi; Lampropeltis zonata, and mexicana.

The above picture is from the Ophidiophile Farms web site. His address is http://dptracer.home.comcast.net. I should have listed that when I posted his picture.

Hogboy is right on about the darlings....My albino female just loves the taste of my finger...

Frank
-----
"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."