Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This has probably been asked, but I'm knew to this forum. Do 100% het or 50% het Piebald ball pythons really have markings that prove they are hets.

Thanks,
Matt

I could be wrong, but I think it's actually a genetic marker that can be detected by DNA testing and not a physical marking.

I know the genetics have not been worked out. As far as outward markings people have speculated, but I don't know if there is really anything in it. If you look at past posts this has been discussed and you can hear the speculation.

Ben

What do you mean by the genetics haven't been worked out? I thought piebald was simple recessive (like albino)?

I am sure Ben is refering to not knowing which gene is mutated and the nature of the mutation.
Justin J

Yes, as Justin said, I ment that as of right now we are not able to determine (by DNA sequencing etc.) whether a normal looking ball python is actually het for piebald or not. With work in snake genetics this could be done, but as of right now the only way I know of to find out if you have a het is by breeding it to another bp you know has the pibald gene and having a cute little piebald pop out for you.

Ben

You had me confused there, but now I understand what you;re saying.

He was purchased as a 100% het piebald. Not all strains of piebalds produce this type of het, but the trait may help in sorting out possible hets if it's in the genetics of the animals you are working with. If you buy from an honest seller, it doesn't matter what the belly looks like regarding whether or not it's a real het. CAUTION: THIS TRAIT CAN APPEAR IN ANY NORMAL BALL PYTHON AND DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A HET PIEBALD! Watch out for scammers trying to market these animals as hets! I'll let you know in summer of 2005 if this guy proves out (I did do my homework on this breeder before I bought).
Paul

I think the genetic confusion comes over the sporadic nature of the marker. Many people can't accept it as a valid marker since some for sure hets don't have it. There are also some reports of normals having it, however I'd like to see some pics of proven normals (i.e. bred to pied lines producing lots with no pieds) with this marker to compare to see if it really looks the same. I don't doubt that there are some ringer types with this belly that don't have the pied gene but I'm also thinking there may be many wild bred pied hets imported each year with the hundred of thousands of CH babies just on a statistical basis. Of course these shouldn't be sold as hets. I did buy a pet store female with the marker for $45 last year and she may be gravid by a 50% chance het pied male with the marker so that will be an interesting test.

Some have speculated that it may be a 2nd gene that is linked to the piebald gene causing the marker in some lines. To me though it looks like the beginning of piebald creeping up from the belly (pics I've seen of piebalds look like the white comes up from there). The two black lines on the edge of the belly could even correspond with the two black lines in the middle of the "normal" colored areas on the back of a pied. I'm wondering if the marker isn't really the pied gene showing through but perhaps there are weaker alleles of the normal gene in some lines or some other gene that allows the pied het condition to show through sometimes.

So, lots of confusion and speculation and very little comment from anyone who has actually bred pieds to clear it up.