Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Well, i just wanted to find out from those people who have talked to the breeder posting the white-sided gopher recently on ks know about the locale and data on the animal. I personally have not talked to the individual selling this snake, but wondered what those who have talked to him know about it. Anyone who knows about the animal and have spoken to the breeder i would really appreciate hearing about it, either here or you can e-mail me directly. My Blizzard and Hypo Sonorans where breeding last night, so hopefully i find a few more of these Ghosts in an egg box later this year.
Have a great Easter weekend everyone.
post i'm talking about:
market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=206751

Gregg F.



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Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

They posted that pic on this forum a while back and asked if it was a Gopher, which tells me they don't know much about it. Gopher or not, it's not like the white-sided Bulls, it's more like a leucistic Pine with a dirty brown stripe down the back. It just doesn't look like anything special. I was amazed to see it priced at $10,000!!!!!! Anyone who buys it will be kickin himself hard when they find out it's a Gopher/Rat cross or it's not a genetic morph.

I hear that, I was thinking that was not too long ago that the pic with the "Does anyone know what this may be?" post was on a few of the forums. 10 grand is outrageous. I wonder what the most expensive Pituophis of all time was? Regardless, I would really like to know some history on the snake and if there's any well knowns out there who may be able to give people confidence it is what it is supposed to be. I also have to consider I may be thinking of a different picture and post with an unknown White Sided snake,but I doubt that. I hope the person selling it steps up and supplies us with some info. I am sure they will have to update the ad because anyone blowing that much cash on one snake is going to want every known detail.

It is the same person, "Colby," who posted here a few times and on the Rat Snake forum with that exact picture asking what kind of snake it was. Infact here is what he said: "I thought it was some kind of white sided rat but I'm not so sure." I don't intend to discredit him, but it's obvious he can't give us any history on the snake since he doesn't even know what it is! Here are links to his posts:

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=259946,259946&key=2003

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=320210,320210&key=2004

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=360580,360580&key=2004

I posted a post like this on the frog forum. It almost got me banned. Something about flaming, though all I was doing was trying to show that someone was incorrectly marketing animals and voicing my disagreement. Getting banned doesn't really bother me, but just thought I would point that out for some others that might not know that a post like this "flaming" as it was put, curtly, to me.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

This post has been here for a couple of days and I know they are monitored daily, so I have no worries. I don't know what you think "flaming" is, but it's definitely not in any of my posts. I only pointed out the facts and hopefully answered Gregg's question. Since this discussion Colby has pulled his ad, perhaps because he read what we had to say or couldn’t get anyone to pay 10K for a possible hybrid. His attempt to "solicit" John tells me that he was just trying to make money. I believe these forums are here for us to help each other and we just may have done that. Thanks for sharing your point of view!

>>This post has been here for a couple of days and I know they are monitored daily, so I have no worries. I don't know what you think "flaming" is, but it's definitely not in any of my posts. I only pointed out the facts and hopefully answered Gregg's question. Since this discussion Colby has pulled his ad, perhaps because he read what we had to say or couldn’t get anyone to pay 10K for a possible hybrid. His attempt to "solicit" John tells me that he was just trying to make money. I believe these forums are here for us to help each other and we just may have done that. Thanks for sharing your point of view!
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Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

Don't take me wrong. I was not saying that the post was flaming, just that that is what kingsnake interpreted it as when I posted a thread extremely similar to this one. I asked for opinions about what one person had posted on the classifieds, and it was pulled and I got in all sorts of trouble, which I found rather hilarious as I had done nothing wrong in the first place.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

Is it just me or is the rostral scale not large enough to be pure pit?

I'm seeing elaphae influence in this snake...
I could be wrong...

???

Dean,
Gophersnakes do not tend to have the prominent rostral that a bullsnake does. They are much more inconspicuous. When you get a chance, check out the photo gallery and compare some of the gophers and bulls. You'll get a better "eye" for distinguishing one from the other once you've had the opportunity to visually compare.

Thanks...I didn't know that. I've worked with lots of pines and bulls, but I've not worked with gophers. I assumed they were very similar.

I got an email solicting me for the purchase of either this animal or one like it and the asking price started at 10,000 and then went down to 1500.00. In both cases I passed as the individual had no background info on it. Someone ask what was the most I ever paid for a pit and for me it was a lot of money years ago for an albino bull that I paid 1000.00 for and a of pink patternless southern wild caughts with locale info I paid 1,800.00 for. But with that said If I could get my hands on some of the central american pits with GOOD paper work, I would pay as much if not more for them as adult breeders.

One side note I also paid 2250.00 for a pair of albino corns hatchlings and 2500.00 for a pair of hatchling HET for albino burmese pythons. Boy have things changed since then.

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Thanks for sharing John. The saying " You get what you pay for" means everything when you are handing cash over to someone who you know to be a reliable honest person. With snakes someone known to be very knowledgeable and who also has been around for years if not decades is where my confidence in spending cash comes from. I know if I found what I believed to be a one of a kind animal I personally would attempt to reproduce it myself as opposed to selling it. After all how does anyone know the look of that animal can be reproduced unless you take a few years to breed it and see what happens? I was always wanting know what was the most anyone paid for a Pit. Looking at morphs, it is so easy to see many Pit morphs are as good looking as morphs of other snakes, yet they get half the attention. I wonder what the Lineaticolis[hope I spelled that correctly] will be going for if and when they make it into the hobby? When I was a kid I had a chance to get in on Albino Corns when they were "new". That was back when many people said "you just can't have snakes succesfully breed in captivity", like you said, man have times changed. Tom

Your observations are correct as far as the differences in folks are concerned. A small or large breeder ( really makes no difference the size) is always trying to reproduce the best animals he/she can and a commercial fancier/collector will sell a new found animal any time he/she gets the chance. That is the reason all of us breeders are such easy prey to folks that come up with a variation that is new. A perfect example is the "pied western hognose" of several years ago. Folks paid big money for hets from that animals and it did not reproduce true. I bought one of them several months ago at normal price. Then on th eother hand the Arabesque, salmon and super salmon boas al came from someone taking a chance and producing some really great color and pattern morphs.

Anyway, I guess the bottom line is I will stay gullible as long as I stay in this stuff. Oh and by the way, don't tell anyone outside this forumhow great these pits are, we will end up like the corn folks. LOL

John Cherry
Cherryville Farms

PS yes I know the pic is a little off topic, but the miniature horses are Cindy's other passion.

Cherryville Farms - Reptiles

Thanks for sharing your experiences John, and everyone else on this subject. Good luck with everything this spring, including mini's. I would really like to see some verifiable and legal Central American pits show up in the U.S. soon. I've been trying to find anyone working with them or even knowing much about them, but not much luck yet. Anything you find out please keep in touch with me on it.
Have a good one,

Gregg F.

>>Your observations are correct as far as the differences in folks are concerned. A small or large breeder ( really makes no difference the size) is always trying to reproduce the best animals he/she can and a commercial fancier/collector will sell a new found animal any time he/she gets the chance. That is the reason all of us breeders are such easy prey to folks that come up with a variation that is new. A perfect example is the "pied western hognose" of several years ago. Folks paid big money for hets from that animals and it did not reproduce true. I bought one of them several months ago at normal price. Then on th eother hand the Arabesque, salmon and super salmon boas al came from someone taking a chance and producing some really great color and pattern morphs.
>>
>>Anyway, I guess the bottom line is I will stay gullible as long as I stay in this stuff. Oh and by the way, don't tell anyone outside this forumhow great these pits are, we will end up like the corn folks. LOL
>>
>>John Cherry
>>Cherryville Farms
>>
>>PS yes I know the pic is a little off topic, but the miniature horses are Cindy's other passion.
>>
>>Cherryville Farms - Reptiles
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Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

>>Well, i just wanted to find out from those people who have talked to the breeder posting the white-sided gopher recently on ks know about the locale and data on the animal. I personally have not talked to the individual selling this snake, but wondered what those who have talked to him know about it. Anyone who knows about the animal and have spoken to the breeder i would really appreciate hearing about it, either here or you can e-mail me directly. My Blizzard and Hypo Sonorans where breeding last night, so hopefully i find a few more of these Ghosts in an egg box later this year.
>>Have a great Easter weekend everyone.
>>post i'm talking about:
>>market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=6&de=206751
>>
>>
>>Gregg F.
>>
>>
>>
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>>Gregg F.
>>
>>www.greggsrb.com

Those are some nice photos! Are those anerys, or ghosts? I'm still learning here.

-cat
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

Thanks cat,
They are Ghost Sonorans that originated, at least my adults that produced the one above, from Jason Nelson of Envy Reptiles. A great guy to deal with, a ton of amazing pit projects. I really like your site, congrats on some amazing animals! I like the female Caulker Cay and Crawl Cay boas, are you working with boeleni also? I am trying to find some anery drawf boas, so if you ever produce any or know of anyone working with them please send them my way.
Have a good day, and good luck with your projects this year!
Gregg F.

>>Those are some nice photos! Are those anerys, or ghosts? I'm still learning here.
>>
>>-cat
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>>My collection and herp photography
>>
>>
>>www.lowergroundreptiles.net
>>
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Gregg F.

www.greggsrb.com

>>Thanks cat,
>> They are Ghost Sonorans that originated, at least my adults that produced the one above, from Jason Nelson of Envy Reptiles. A great guy to deal with, a ton of amazing pit projects. I really like your site, congrats on some amazing animals! I like the female Caulker Cay and Crawl Cay boas, are you working with boeleni also? I am trying to find some anery drawf boas, so if you ever produce any or know of anyone working with them please send them my way.
>>Have a good day, and good luck with your projects this year!
>>Gregg F.
>>
>>

Thanks for the feedback on my site! I'm always trying to make it look nicer. My Caulker and Crawls are still too young to breed, I'm actually in the market for males (I only have females right now) and eventually I might get some boelen's. Unfortunately, there hasn't been much luck (or so I've heard) with breeding the Boeleni.

I do have an anery-colored sonoran bci that I am trying to raise up. There were two of them born in the batch, the other one died shortly after birth. The female I have left is still not eating on her own, and I am having to assist-feed her. Hopefully she takes off on her own! I am also expecting another clutch of sonoran bci this year from a virgin female and the same male that produced the anery-colored one.

Again, your ghost sonoran pit is beautiful!

-Cat
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My collection and herp photography

www.lowergroundreptiles.net

against the law to offer for sale a w/c sonoran if he still lives in AZ.
He took it down cause he did not know so all is well?
We are not sure what exactly it is but if it is a w/c from AZ.it is indeed a sonoran gopher.
Anyways,Its a cool looking snake and he should just keep it as a pet cause its a catch of a lifetime.

Later shannon