Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi i am currently raising two three toed box turtles and i would like to some day soon have some eggs. they live in the yard in a 3 x 6 feet enclosure, pleanty of plants and hiding spots and a small pond, so they should be pretty happy. i just have one male and one female right now.
my question is about helping them along with the whole breeding process. I don't want to rush them but at the same time i would like to encourage them, is there anything i can do to help?
they hibernated this last winter and woke up a few weeks ago so they should have pleanty of mating hormones.
also i'm pretty sure my female is mature, she is about 3 1/2 inches long atleast three years old. i was just wondering if there was anyway to tell for sure if she is sexually mature.
thanks any help would be great.

If your female is only 3 years old, she is too young to breed. I do beleive they need to be at least 5 years old before they reach sexual maturity. Sorry.

JOSTA is right: the female is too young and small to be reproductively mature: if your male is larger, you should keep them separated for a few years until she grows up. He could really stress her if he's 'ready' and she's not.
I would also suggest that you consider enlarging the pen: 3x6 isn't very big, when you consider that they'd normally have a home range of a few acres in the wild.
Stephanie

errrr ..... errrrr that wasn't very helpful so anyway we don't know the exact age of my female so thats why i wanted to know if there were other ways besides guessing age to tell
as for the 3x6 pen thats as big as i could manage and its really pleanty of room for them since i just have the two of them.
so now lets just asume my female is mature are there ways of encouraging mating/egg production that anyone knows of like i said before i don't want to rush them just encourage.
thanks, as always any thoughts would be appreciated

theres no way your females sexually mature yet, think about it like this boxies grow aprox 1 inch per year so at 3 1/2" she's aprox. be 3 1/2 years old or younger.. or slightly older but in the general area, sexual maturity doesn't hit till 5-10 years of age, you could be waiting a while..

as for the pen I remember seeing a post here a few years back about pen size, it was something like 8x8 was ideal for 1 turtle then add 1 1/2' per every other turtle you have, if you really get to thinking about wild boxies they travel quite a distence each day, keeping 2 in a 6x3 that means they've each got 3x1 1/2'.. thats really not that much, be like you getting locked in a closet thats 6x6.
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'Helpful' is not necessarily the same as 'what you want to hear'.
Your enclosure is too small for two turtles: if its all you can manage, then its all you can manage, but that doesn't mean that its enough room.
By providing your turtles with adequate room, and even separating them for a few years, your female will be less likely to be harassed by the male. This will, in turn, prevent her from getting stressed, which will keep her happier and healthier, and uninjured and, most importantly, alive.
If your female has plenty of room to avoid the male, enough room to hide from him for days at a time, enough room to find an appropriate out-of the-way spot to lay her eggs(when the time comes), she'll probably breed happily for years to come, without any encouragement from you.
Forget about breeding your turtles for a few years: there's not a whole lot you can do until she gets older. Take advantage of the opportunity to learn more about your pets and their needs.

this is for steph i don't want to be rude but i feel like i want to say some stuff to you. i see you posting A LOT in the box turtle forum and i feel your advice is poor. I would just like to suggest to you to do some scientificaly research on your boxies i know in the wild they inhabbit about the area of a foot ball field but if you think of other domestic animals such as cats for example in the wild they would inhabbit a much much bigger area then a boxy and yet they are perfectly happy in a house.
this is my advice to you captive bred animals even turtles are different then wild ones
so if you have a wild turtle they you should have a giant pen but if you have a wild one that is very creul to the turtle
for pen size there is just no mathmatical rules to follow if your turtles are happy then its big enough

I'm sorry, but I think Steph is right on the mark. Chelonians will use all the room you can give them, and if you have a breeding pair, the more room the better. The female must be able to get away from the male to keep her stress level down. If your pen size is the best you can do, then it's the best you can do, but there's no need to get defensive when someone tells you bigger would be better.

Comparing a CB turtle a generation or two out of the wild to a cat that's been domesticated for thousands of years isn't really a comparison at all, if you think about it.

I can see that you're not happy with the feedback you were given, but all in all, I think the advice was on the money.
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Sohni
Northern California

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plus my kids' herps:
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Have you done long term comparison studies of CB versus WC box turtles in captivity? I try to read as many scientific papers about box turtles as I can find, but I haven't yet found one that covers that topic.
And how do you gauge a turtle's happiness? Captive bred or not, these are not domesticated animals and still have powerful instincts dictating their behavior to a great degree. Just because an animal is captive bred doesn't mean that its basic needs are diminished somehow.

if you've never noticed differences in CB and CW animals your nuts
besides being incredibly more hardy they just don't have the same instincts as wild turtles i'm not saying they are completely different but you must have seen the differences and if you haven't don't talk to me cause your wasting your time do you even have any box turtles? it really doesn't seem like you do
and if you think i'm trying to bad mouth you i'm not i just don't like the way you believe you know everything so dont' post on my postings k?

I don't know everything about box turtles. Evidently you know even less. Unfortunately for your turtles, you also seem to be unwilling to learn more, and, unfortunately for readers on this forum, you're unwilling to be civilized.
Unlike some who use the internet to pretend to be that which they are not, I'm a member of this forum because I do have box turtles,care about their wellbeing, and enjoy the exchange of ideas, advice and experience here.
In the mean time consider this: has anyone told you that your female is mature? or that your pen is the perfect size, and making it bigger would be a big mistake?
Stephanie

you are so frustrating first thing stop posting to me

next the thing i wanted you to know is that i asked a question to this forum and i didn't recive a single answer back what i got back was you telling me i should make my pen bigger and that you guess she is too small thats fine but i didn't ask anything about my pen or the size maturity relationship to my turtle and then your like sorry and you just didn't give me any advice and your other postings i've seen you do you've done the exact same thing to other people go check how many postings you've done that end with sorry
this forum is not about telling people your opinion of what they shouldn't do its to share experiences and facts so just think about what i've said and don't post to me anymore cause we are cool

I'm sure Freud has a term for you.

I think you did get some answers to your original question--at least all the responses seemed to indicate that your female is too small to breed right now. The pen issue comes about because a male that is ready to breed will harass any female, whether she is mature or not, and unless she has enough room to get away from the male she will be constantly stressed. The advice you were given was sound, and how you use it is up to you.
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Sohni
Northern California

0.1 Baja de L.A. Rosy Boa
0.1 Okeetee Corn Snake
1.1 Rubber Boas
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Hermann's Tortoise
0.0.1 Marginated Tortoise
1.0 3 Toed Box Turtle (rescued)
plus my kids' herps:
0.1 California King Snake
1.0 Mexican Rosy Boa
0.1 Leopard Gecko

I think you got some valid points with the replys you got back. You wanted to know how to encourage your turtles to mate; well with this everyone also assumed that you wanted her to actually lay eggs so you could have hatchlings. Am I right? Well the size of the enclosure DOES com into play, whether initially you asked about this or not. If your female box turtle is constantly harrassed by the male and DOES become gravid She wil becom eto stressed out to even lay eggs and there fore become eggbound. Yes this DOES happen because of enclosure size I have seen it on other forums as well as here years ago. I was an active member of this forum 3-4 years ago, but have sinced joined another forum that I am active in. I still check in here weekly to see pics of everyones turtles and enclosures, and see if the ppl who were here when i was here a few years back are lurking around. I have come to respect Steph's opinion and invite her to join the other other forum, as I feel her advice would be great over there. No one bashed you as you may think, but gave you helpful advise(emphasis on helpful) To better care for your turtles to yes ----HELP THEM BREED...thats what you wanted. When you do recieve hatchlings they will eventually move outside to, and a bigger enclosure would be needed. I wish you tons of luck as does everyone else here, we are all here to help, and want everyone to better from what we have already experienced! Box turtles can be great pets and are amazing creatures! I myself have 1.3 thre toe box turtle Adults, 2 three toe hatchlings almost a year old, two eastern box turtle hatchlings almost a year old and a two year old three toe box turtle, not counting my adult res, hatchling res, and snapping turtle-all of which are in their own outdoor ponds. Not everyone can give their turtle the same care as the next b/c of space needs, but we all want to give them the best care-as I know you do thats why you came here.

Wow, I read this subject just now and how fast things went down. Anyway, 1) female too young. 2) If that's all the room you have available, then Stephanie is right...Then that's all you could give them. Nothing to get excited about. 3) Don't get your hopes high on breeding them. It's better to just raise them for a hobby. The babies are just a bonus. I found that when you expect young ones, you are bound to get disappointed. I like it better to find the hatchlings roaming about. Just my opinion. Harry