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The substrate questions

WingedWolfPsion Jun 13, 2003 09:09 PM

There have been a lot of posts on using safe substrates.

Quite frankly, the safest substrate to prevent impactions is either none at all, or a single large bare rock. This definitely can't be ingested by a gecko. <g>

However, is safety the only issue being addressed? I submit that psychology should also be considered. Geckos do not live on bare rock in the wild. They live on rock-strewn, sandy soil, interspersed with various types of dead and living desert vegetation. We could try to duplicate this, of course, or compromise. I personally feel that a substrate that allows geckos to dig is more psychologically satisfying and less stressful for them than being kept on a bare, flat surface. Plain sand does fit this bill, as would plain potting soil (no vermiculite or perlite), or a mix of the two. The sand is cleaner. The hazards from ingestion are probably not very high, so long as you take sensible precautions (like feeding small prey in dishes rather than loose).

Some herps are going to do an odd thing, and eat their substrate. They may be looking for trace minerals, or they may not have a reason that we can pin down. It's very uncommon, but it happens.

Whether you choose to use bare slate, paper towels, or sand, consider the other guy's point of view. You can argue until the cows come home about the merits of one of these substrates over the others, but the truth is that we do not know the full consequences of using any of them. We don't know how they affect stress levels, nor what causes a reptile to ingest so much substrate that it becomes impacted (this is surely more than the trace amount picked up with a cricket)! We don't KNOW which is "better". We don't fully understand the consequences of using each type. No one has done stress level studies, nor tried to determine whether impacted reptiles were suffering from any sort of mineral deficiency.

So rather than telling the guy with the other viewpoint that they're wrong, and you're right, try simply making sure they know the pros and cons of what they are using, so they can make an informed decision on it.
Because you could be wrong.

Replies (11)

lissag25 Jun 13, 2003 09:39 PM

l

JennaLeigh Jun 13, 2003 09:48 PM

n/p
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*~*JeNnA*~*

ZeR0 Jun 13, 2003 09:56 PM

I agree that sand is probably more fun for them, just not as safe. I dont think my gecko really minds, she has a nice big humid hide with lots of bed a beast to dig in (which she takes advantage of). I use this kind of reptile carpet, which i find is fairly eye pleasing and no chance of impaction. I would never house my gecko on sand, just for the reason that she licks EVERYTHING when she comes out. L8er
MaC

azteclizard Jun 13, 2003 11:12 PM

A sensible post on the issue. There has been other good posts in the past, but not lately. I have been keeping and breeding leos for 11 years now, and have kept them on all sorts of substrates. I used sand for my whole colony for several seasons, and never lost a gecko to impaction. I currently use bed-a-beast in my egg-laying boxes. They ingest it and pass it regularly. More often than not, impaction occurs as a result of inadequate husbundry.
great post
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Bill DiFabio
Azteclizard.com
Email Me

moi24 Jun 14, 2003 12:37 AM

Wow, what a fabulous and very mature post!

Anyway, I'm very new to leopard geckos and very glad I came across this. I've been using a very fine-grade calcium sand for substrate. I've read a lot on impaction, but I'm glad to see there is another side. I feel comfort knowing that the latest poster, a breeder for 11 years, uses sand also and has never lost a pet to impaction. I don't want to make any bad decisions, but sand is so easy to clean and helps keep my gecko's cage dry and helps keep the humidity below 40-50%.

If anyone has lost a pet to impaction, I'd really like to know. I don't want this happening to my young gecko. I'd like to make well-informed decisions, and that takes knowing both sides. Thanks for showing me this one.

RedQuake Jun 14, 2003 09:43 AM

Hi, i have lost one gecko to impaction. Interestingly enough he was on papertowels at the time but it was the moss in his humid hide that caused the impaction. He most likely went after a cricket and got a mouth full, his aiming was always a bit off.....the joys of being a baby My other gecko Leo, got sick, i saw him poop out sand, so i removed him to a smaller tank with papertowels. He got worse cause he wouldn't drink from a different water dish, but once i put *HIS* dish in he started to drink again and looks to be much better. He's still thin but he's eating, drinking and pooping normal now. My other 20 gal tank is set up with textured ceramic tiles and an area of large rolled gravel (rolled meaning theres few if any sharp edges). I created a cave rock formation that is siliconed to a board so the gravel and large stones hold the structure in place and covers the board. I'll see how that setup works. On the other hand my baby crested gecko is on NO substrate at all. He seems to get around better on the glass than he did on papertowels and the crickets are easier to catch.

I'll ever only put adults in the gravel tank, babies are on either just the tiles, reptile carpet or papertowels in the 3 other tanks i have.

Red

Fritz Jun 14, 2003 02:04 AM

Some excellent points!!

It all comes down to each individual gecko, a friend of mine kept his on sand for years with no problems, I had one on sand for 3 months and he stopped eating/pooping.
Over the course of a few weeks he managed to pass a few "sand logs" after I removed the sand. I've seen him stand right in his calcium dish and eat the sand next to it...
if people can keep them on sand for so long and not have a problem it can't be all bad.
I think that some leos are just suicidal when it comes to eating substrate
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KelliH Jun 14, 2003 07:23 AM

np
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Peace-
Kelli Hammack
H.I.S.S.
email me

RedQuake Jun 14, 2003 08:57 AM

That was a great post!

Red

PHScales Jun 14, 2003 06:33 PM

Seriously!! Awesome post!! If you keep doing this, I swear I'll pull you in as a moderator...

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Bonnie Keller
PH Scales
Kingsnake.com Site Coordinator

WingedWolfPsion Jun 14, 2003 11:13 PM

LOL....thanks, but I don't think I have the time for another commitment like that right now. :D

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