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Just got him or her this weekend from PetsMart. I know...I know...we won't go there right now, but my girlfriend works there and got her free because she escaped in December and was already written off. I don't think she has had a decent meal since or light expossure since. I've been feeding her mustard greens and turnip greens for the time being under a 75 watt tight beam Exo Terra light inside a five gallon. I know this is small, but she is small (not to much bigger than a hatchling). I'm going to move her to a ten and then into a forty breeder, or 55 gal in a month or two. See constantly sleeps. Is this normal? This morning she had scabbing over her nostrals. I'm not sure if it was shed or what. Is this normal? I don't think it is. I have her on paper towel, but am looking for a good substrate. Thinking about millet or finch seed. What's the rap on this stuff? Any moth problems, etc. with it?

I would highly recommend moving your uro to the biggest tank right away. You say "I'm going to move her to a ten and then into a forty breeder, or 55 gal in a month or two." Does that mean that you already have a 10 gal tank available? If not, move it directly into the largest one you'll get. If you do have the 10 gal available right now, move it in right now! Since it's a rescue, it'll need the best care possible and you don't want to stress it out any more than it already is. It is next to impossible to achieve a good temperature gradient in a 10 gal tank (absolutely impossible in a 5 gal). What are you using to measure the temps in the tank? Does your uro have a good spot to bask and is it hot enough?
Also, keep your uro on paper towels or newspaper for now until it starts getting better. It'll also make retrieving a fecal sample a whole lot easier on you.
Can you take a pic of your uro and your setup?

I hope this helps you out.

P.S. Please read the caresheets for uros at www.deerfernfarms.com so you know what you're dealing with.

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1 Mali Uromastyx named Ra

I've got the bearded's crickets in the 10 gallon, but will remove and clean so that she can have the 10 today. What's the scabbing from though? PetsMart puts them in the smallest inclosures with a set-up that is no where near correct. I've seen uro's and beardie's staying the same size that have been there for weeks. That's sad. What's the best lighting...MVB? What bulb? I've just used Exo Terra tight beams and their florecent UVB's.

I couldn't tell you which one is best (MVB or fluorescent UVB) but as long as your uro is getting UVB, that's good. With regards to the scabbing on the nostrils, it's kind of hard to tell without a pic of it because it could be a number of things. It could be extra shed, or it could be damaged skin due to excessive nose-rubbing and bumping in a way-too-small enclosure. I'm sorry that I can't help out more than that without a pic. Do you have a digital camera? If so, you can post your pic here.

Good luck

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1 Mali Uromastyx named Ra

If you keep your uro in a 5 gallon for a few months- you may need to invest in a shovel rather than a bigger enclosure.
There is no way possible to achieve the proper gradient temps in a 5 or 10 gallon tank.
People that think they are rescuing or helping a uro by moving it from one tiny improper enclosure to another are not facing reality.
I would recommend returning the uro to the store, at least someone could have a small expense write-off when it dies.

I find this post very insensitive and unhelpful. Its obvious that he's coming to the forum because he wants what is best for his uro, he just doesn't know what that is yet. Posts like this will discourage people from getting advice and possible lead to harming Uros even more.

I understand your frustration with "new" owners or people who seem to have taken a Uro in on a spontaneous whim, but that doesn't mean they don't want to care for them as much as you do. You don't have to provide advice if you feel the owner has not done their research, but you definitely won't help by cutting them down.

My 2 cents.
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1 Mali Uromastyx named Scooter
ScootersHomepage
1 Miniature Dachshund named Dexter
DextersHomepage
Nashville, TN

And…you are entitled to your opinion as am I.

I DO believe that a shovel will be more likely needed than a new enclosure if the undernourished and weak uromastyx is kept in a 5 gallon tank for the next two months.

I firmly believe that there is no way to create the appropriate gradient temps for a uromastyx in a 5 or 10 gallon tank.

I do think that a pet store can write off animals that have died which would be the only positive thing that I see coming out of the death of this animal.

I absolutely think that people who ‘ pseudo’ rescue uromastyx by taking them from one unfit environment to another are NOT facing reality. This is not a putdown- just a fact. If they were facing reality, they would leave the animal where it is OR provide better conditions. Taking them from one unfit environment to another is not helping nor is it rescuing- it is merely giving the animal a new place to die. It also promotes chain stores to continue the mistreatment of uromastyx. (Please try to keep this issue separate from someone who greatly improves the conditions of an animal giving it a greater chance of survival)

While you may view my post as insensitive because I did not sugar coat things to your satisfaction, let me put it in context for you.

Mastino came to this forum for help on April 10th indicating he had his new uro in a 5 gallon tank. He was informed that the enclosure was way too small for even a baby. He was also given a website for husbandry information which explains in detail the appropriate size enclosure and accurate temps.

I, like you, believed that this person came for advice and would take every reasonable measure possible to do what was best for the uro so I did not offer any insensitive or unhelpful advice that day. I figured that he would take the corrective measure of changing the enclosure that day or as soon as possible and I did not give it another thought. Three days later, Mastino posts that the uro is still in the 5 gallon tank even though he knows it is too small (and he had a larger one sitting there with crickets in it) and that he would be moving his uro to a 10 gallon and then 40 gallon in one or two months.

Although I could have taken the sugar coated route, (it would probably have done as much good as the advice that was given on the 10th, ), I opted for the brutally honest opinion route which sometimes gets attention when the sugar coated route fails.

I must disagree with you Wasabigirl, my post could be very helpful if it got the point across that the weakened uro needed a larger enclosure immediately for its survival.

I also disagree with your statement that I was putting anyone down. Putting him down would have went like this “you idiot how could you possibly put a uro in a 5 gallon tank?”

Was it insensitive, probably. But then again, I am not here to win any type of congeniality awards. Unhelpful – not if listened to. A put down- yep the practice of pseudo rescuing/helping and those that do not take the most basic (husbandry) of responsibility.

The "scabbing" could also be the snalt...a salty deposit buildup that can reoccur. If you hold a water-moistened q-tip to it for a few seconds and it dissolves...that's probably what it is!
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1 Mali Uromastyx named Scooter
ScootersHomepage
1 Miniature Dachshund named Dexter
DextersHomepage
Nashville, TN

What ever it was came off...what could cause the salty deposit? Thanks for the tip!

I don't know if anyone really knows, but everyone has seen it! Some say its a sign of dehydration, but others strongly disagree. I don't think its anything to worry about, although I do look out for it, cause my guy is so tiny, a nose blockage just scares me!

Glad it came off easily!
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1 Mali Uromastyx named Scooter
ScootersHomepage
1 Miniature Dachshund named Dexter
DextersHomepage
Nashville, TN

You can't "stop" snalt, that would be like saying "How can I stop sweating?". Snalt is the way uros get rid of excess salt and is completely normal.
Not all lizards are alike and uros can be tricky if you don't know what you're doing. Information on this animal is vital to their survival and long-term well-being. I've been told by some woman who worked at a petstore say "well, I've worked here for 15 years and I know that that [pointing to a caged saharan uro mislabelled as a mali] is a mali. They do add orange to their coloration sometimes." WHAT A CROCK!! It was obvious that she figured just because she's worked in a petstore for several years meant that she was an expert. Even the most basic uro keeper quickly learns that malis do not EVER develop any orange at all! Having spent time caring for other animals doesn't mean that a person will know how to deal with something they've never dealt with before. It's too bad that lady didn't bother to read ANY caresheets during her 15 years there.
Now, I'm no expert (far from it) but reading caresheets about uros have made me more knowledgeable about them and I'm still learning by being on here and discussing husbandry. When I add to my lizard collection, I'll read as many caresheets as I can find about the animals in question before and after purchasing them to make sure they get the best care possible. Please, please read the uro caresheets if you haven't done so already.

Good luck with your little girl
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1 Mali Uromastyx named Ra

I've read the caresheet at Deer Fern and a few other places. I've found the information very helpful. That's a good story you told...I used to work at PetsMart and my girlfriend still does. The stories that she and I could tell you would make you cry, laugh, and your skin crawl. I know where you are coming from with the advice about knowing everything...I don't and I'm not trying to make an attempt at it. If I sound otherwise, forgive me. I don't entend to. Thanks for the advice

We all just want to make sure that your little girl will make it through and eventually become a big girl.
As for tank size, the extra space is not at all wasted. Uros need a LOT of running around room (I don't think even my whole living room would be enough to make it 100% happy). More room also means less banging into the walls and "glass dancing". It's also a question of mental stimulation. It is true that they are very curious creatures and will investigate every nook and cranny you can provide. More space also means you can put more stuff in there, which equals more mental stimulation which means faster healing time and a much better adjusted uro. Plus, it's really funny watching them run around with that much room.
Uros babies are not like leopard gecko babies that will stress out if their tank is too big. Uro babies just need slighly cooler basking temps than juvies or adults and finely chopped greens. So, in this case, bigger is better (plus, having to buy only one big tank instead of several tanks will save you a lot of money in the long run). If I would have known then what I know now, I would've bought a 4'x2'x2' tank right away. Oh well.

Hope this helps

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1 Mali Uromastyx named Ra

Debb,

Sorry, but I did not intend to shift any resposibility. I have accepted the responsibility of taking care of this young uro. I fully intend on holding up my end of the bargin. I'm making steps to get her in the proper setting...with me. I'm simply looking for opinions on products and other questions. Do not try to make an example of me in an attempt to prevent some child from purchasing a Uro from some pet store chain. No one is as perfect as you, Debb. Just a question, why would you want to put such a small Uro or even a beardie in such a large enclosure? She is not very active...hasn't been since they pulled her from under the enclosure at PetsMart. Yes, she moves around a little, but sleeps much more than one would expect. When she is awake, she does look alert, etc. I would think that such a large enclosure (more than 10 gallons) would be a waste AT THIS POINT IN TIME. She is very, very small for her age. Wouldn't it be hard for her to locate her veggies, etc. other than dropping her directly into them. Thank you for you much needed input.

Don't worry about her getting lost. Uros are curious and busy - she should be able to find her food just fine, if you show her where it is once. The cage can be as big as you can manage to get - the more space the better. Just make sure your low temps aren't any lower than minimum during the day - they stay sleeping if they are too cool. If she's not feeling well, you can keep a close eye on her to make sure she's really moving around and eating. A larger enclosure with stuff to climb and explore may help her be more stimulated and get better soon, too, rather than sitting in a smaller, boring one. Small, dark, tight hiding spaces are necessary - and like Debb said, closer to the warm side so she doesn't stay too cool.

Good luck - and let us know how she does!
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Torey
Salem, Oregon, USA
1.1 Uromastyx Geyri (Joe and Arthur)
1.1 Uromastyx Maliensis (Tank and Turtle)
1.1 Anolis Carolinensis (Bowser and Leeloo)
1.1 African Dwarf Frogs (Bruce and Sheila)
1.0 Betta Splendens (Mr. Miagi)
1.0 Sunset Dwarf Gourami (Sideshow)
0.0.1 False Spotted Corydoras (Spot)
0.0.2 Metae Corydoras (Frank and Jesse)
0.0.2 Dwarf Sucking Oto (Tootsie and Dum-Dum)
1.1 Felis Domesticus (Roscolux and Jenny)

The primary reason for putting your uro in a larger enclosure right now is to provide your uro with the necessary temperatures which are vital to its basic health. You cannot achieve this proper gradient in a 5 or 10 gallon tank.
Your uromastyx needs these temperatures to properly regulate its body temp and to digest food and prevent illness.
Long term (subjective) inadequate temps has been linked to organ failure and to illnesses such as gout and MBD.

A uromastyx that sleeps a lot (other than during brumation) usually points to illness, stress or improper conditions. My uromastyx are out and active approx 80% of their 14 hour daylight time.

I am currently nursing a small ornate (5 ¾” STL ) back to health in a 4’ enclosure after a shipping injury. Even though he is small and not extremely active, he has no problem finding his food which I usually place 5-6" from him. If I had attempted to nurse him back to health in a 5 or 10 gallon tank, I honestly do not think he would be alive right now. Proper temperatures are so much more important with an injured or weak animal than they are with a healthy one.

When I made the statement that if my post makes one person think about the responsibility of ownership I have made my point- this was not necessarily directed at only kids buying from pet stores. This was directed at anyone including yourself.

I do not claim to be perfect - I only claim to speak what is on my mind. I apologize to those who are offended by my sometimes brutal opinions. Keep in mind that they are just opinions and you can ignore them or disagree with them.