Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Has anybody heard of a new subspecies known as V. salvator komaini? I stumbled upon a Japanese site, which had several subspecies listed, including toiganensis and komaini. At first, the komaini appears to be the same as a toigan, but as toigans have the barring on their lower jaw, this komaini does not. This subspecies appears to be completely black. Does anybody have any ideas as far as locality goes? John, Mark, anybody? I have never heard of this subspecies before, but then again, I am not the hardcore salvator enthusiast as some of you. Just curious... here's a link to the site where I found the pics.... take care,

bob
Varanus salvator komaini pics- scroll down

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You are correct they are jet black, from belly to back. Not a good idea to put up locality data never know who may go over collecting.

They have been around for a number of years now.

i understand, I was unaware that this subspecies has been around for a while. Do you happen to know if this variety stays small like the toigans and cummingi, or does it grow to a larger size like most of the mainland salv's? I remember going back a bunch of years, there being some zoos who had "melanistic" water monitors on exhibit, which were all black; which I am now presuming that they were this subspecies, before there was any info on that particular locality. Take care jody, thanks for the info.

bob
The Odatriad

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They did start out as just melanistic waters, later to be komani.
I have seen large cumingi's and togians. So size may have more to do with them being imports as captive born has proven to be totally different then the wild caught counterparts.

Guess I will have to see what my togian ends up as.

hey jody,

I don't exactly understand what you mean by captive bred individuals being different in size to wc's. I was under the assumption that adult size in any animal is predetermined genetically prior to birth. Perhaps a cb animal will grow faster, as it is going to be eating much more frequently, and most likely never have to deal with factors such as drought, parasites, or heavy competition for food, however its wild counterpart(or originally wc parent) still has the same(similar) genetic material for size, only it may take longer to reach that size, given it doesn't get killed off by predators, hunters, parasites, illness, etc... I do understand that there will be much variation within any species, however to say that a cb animal is genetically different than a wc animal, doesn't make much sense to me.

Anybody else have an opinion on this??
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"So size may have more to do with them being imports as captive born has proven to be totally different then the wild caught counterparts."

Now let me explain notice I said wild caught not wild.

Which means I have collected one from the wild and now have it in captivity. It has been proven that these animals through adjusting, etc. to captivity differ from the captive babies.

If they did not then they would be the same price, and people would prmote wild caught instead of captives.

Not sure what was so hard to understand by what I said, unless you take way more from it then what there is.

But as an example wild caught cumingis are noted as to being smaller, then those that are c.b.b..

Remember with reptiles size has to do with genetics as well as the enviroment it is living in. Even more so the later.

Hope this clears it up for you.

I was just saying that even a wild caught individual who is smaller than a cbb still has the potential to(genetics) attain the same size. I think that if you give it time and feed a wild caught individual as frequently or as rigorously as a cb individual, that they will both reach the same overall lengths.
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Maybe but then you still have the stress levels that come into play. The c.b.b animals should not have the same amount of stress. Therefor they are still different no matter what you do unless you can sooth them into being less stressed.

I agree that cb and wc will always have their differences, I was just saying that both have the same potential; didn't mean to start any trouble, unless it's trouble you're looking for.....lol. take care jody,

bob
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n/p
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who me trouble? hahahahahaa

Hey nothing wrong with a debate, but it seems we have met common ground now.

but it seems we agreed along time ago just wording it all differently is all.

Hey the nature vs. nurture debate is always a good discussion but I just want to know where this

Jody said
"So size may have more to do with them being imports as captive born has proven to be totally different then the wild caught counterparts."

Turned into this

Bob said
"I do understand that there will be much variation within any species, however to say that a cb animal is genetically different than a wc animal, doesn't make much sense to me."

lol

It is still debateable as to the validity of this komani form. some say it is just a melanistic form of salvator seeing as though nuchal & other scale counts are the same or about the same between the 2 forms. togianus on the other hand is valid as the have diff. scalation counts. I've seen these in person on several occasions togians & "komani" & they look completely diff. A good site to check out is my buddy John A.'s cybersalvator.com ; another one is varanus.nl both have good info. on them with picts. of a lot of varanids as well as the 2 in question.

Hi Bob,
V.s. komaini was originally a black coloured salvator, named as such by a Russian exporter for his son in Jakarta...the specifics on this "komaini" have always been vague and clouded with unspecifics.

However, Laupersat in Thailand did do a field study of this subspecies in Thailand, and Reverend F. Mason does describe it in good details in 1852 in Thailand/Malaya peninsula of that time period. Laupersat also formally described V.s. komaini, but regretably it is in thai-Loas languages, and I have not been able to find anyone who can or would translate it for me, and I very much want to read it (in english)...I am very curious how they substantiated it from other V. salvators forms - so to reply, this animal is "not new" by any standards, but is a cool animal to look at...
cheers,
markb