Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm so worried about my new BDs that I cant do any work. So I'm posting here looking for some advice.

I had a birthday this past Saturday and wanted a new pet. I heard about the BDs reputation as a good first reptile pet, docile, tame .. and cute! So we went looking at some pet stores.

One after another, the reptile section of the store were limited. We decided on one last store and hit the jackpot! The reptile mgr there was an enthusiastic young man who seemed very excited about our new interest in BDs.

He told us they didnt have any, as they had sold out the previous week, but that it wouldn't be a problem getting some more. As we talked, he seemed very knowledgable telling us what BDs like, dont like, etc. A 'rundown' if you will, for first-time reptile owners.

As we started looking at the enclosures and other necessities, he pointed us to an enclosure he put together with all the goodies. It included a 3 bulb top, an undertank heater, some sand, a few dishes, a rock, thermo, etc etc.

We took it all home, set it up (making sure to filter out the sand), and waited for the BDs to come in. When they came in this past Monday evening, they were soooo small! I didn't expect them to be 4-6 inches. We decided on two of them, brought 'em home and let them get acclimated to their new surroundings.

One of 'em was very active, and great to watch. The other didn't move as much. The active one found the branch right away and climbed up to start basking. The other remained on the sand and hardly moved for the remainder of the night.

The next morning (Tuesday) we saw two droppings, and was surprised at how big it was .. thinking small babies = small droppings. We fed them some worms they gave us ... but they showed no interest. My wife left the house for a few hours and came back to find more droppings, and all the worms still there. Later in the day, we fed them some veggies (collards/kale finely chopped) ... they ignored that too. So here we are Wed morning, they havent eaten, and now they both aren't moving much, very lethargic. I'm worried about them now.

I'm glad I found this forum to ask questions, only to find out sand isn't recommended for young guys like these. And an understank heater isn't necessary!! ARGH! I plan to go back to the store and talk to the mgr and ask him about what we're seeing and what we should do to get them to eat.

Sorry for the long post, but thanks for letting me vent ... and any advice you can offer would be greately appreciated.

For the record, the enclsoure is your standard medium-sized aquarium, using a UVB bulb and a day-glow (?) bulb. The right hand side temp is about 105 (where the undertank heater is) ... the left hand side is about 90 .. and the basking spot (top of the branch) is about 112.

Have you given them water? They won't drink standing water out of a bowl, so they need to either be misted or have water dropped on their noses. They sound like they could be dehydrated. The cool side of the tank should be a bit cooler, your basking temp is good, but the cool side should be in the 80's. Have you tried crickets? Another thing about beardies is they should be kept separately, but you have some time before you need to worry about that, unless one becomes more aggressive then the other.
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we did offer water in a shallow bowl (like book said) and either were interested. i'll ask my wife to prepare some water and put drop on their noses.

we havent tried crickets yet .. im stopping by the store today, so i'll pick some up. hopefully they'll react better to those than the worms. one of the worms crawled/wriggled right by one and he didnt react to it at all.

like alot of other things, i didnt realize they should be seperated. one of 'em was kinda aggressive towards the other. and when i say aggressive, he was more or less stepping on/over the other for a bit. but that has stopped now that they are both hardly moving.

and i'll work on getting the cooler side cooler. thanks so much for the tips!

Beardies after a big move will sometimes lose their appetite for a few days. Do soak them in a bath everyday or mist them really good so that they are hydrated. The lethargy might be caused by so many things. I would recommend having a fecal done to be sure there are no parasites or anything.

Definately get them off the sand. And if it is calcium sand, throw it away right now! That stuff is terrible! Regular sifted playsand is the only acceptable kind, and it is only to be used on adults...... and it still may pose some risks. Paper towels will be the best substrate for young beardies.

You didn't mention what type of worms you feed them. Either way, they should be fed gut-loaded crickets, smaller than the space between their eyes. The only acceptable worms for a staple food on beardies that young are silkworms, and I doubt any local petstore has those. Keep offering salads every day, even if they don't eat it. Eventually they will start. Also you didn't mention any supplimentation. Did the petstore guy say anything about supplimenting their foods with calcium and vitamin suppliments? This is VERY important.

It is not recommended keeping two in the same enclosure. Very soon they will need to be seperated, lest you want to deal with nipped tails or toes. Only rarely can two beardies be kept together in harmony, and that's ONLY if they are both female, and the same size, which you can't know at this point. If they both turn out to be males, they will fight. If they are male and female, they will breed, and I am willing to bet 100% that they are siblings hatched from the same clutch. You do not ever want siblings to mate. And I guarantee that if they are male and female they WILL mate, a lot, and it will stress out the female and leave you with dozens of babies to care for. A huge responsibility. So you're either looking at buying another enclosure, or returning one of them. It's the best way.

You didn't mention the size of your enclosure. Young beardies should be kept in a small enclosure like a 20 gallon until they grow out of it, and then an adult beardie needs an eclosure that has 4ft by 2ft of groundspace. If your petshop friend sold you a small tank for the babies, then he forgot to mention that in a few months you'll be buying a much larger tank for them. If he sold you a large tank, then he didn't realize that such a huge enclosure for such small lizards can be very stressful for them. They like to feel secure and safe, and they can't in a large setup. Also the cool side of the tank should be a bit cooler, more like 80-85 degrees.

I wish all petstore employees knew everything abvout the animals they sell, but sometimes they don't, even if they sound like they do. Unfortunately new pet owners often can't tell the difference between a knowledgable employee and someone blowing smoke up your a$$. My advice for you is to not take any one person's word as gospel. Always check and double check with other resources and make sure it all adds up. You can even double check everything I've said here... it won't hurt my feelings. There are hundreds of caresheets available online, and lots of literature. I recommend you start reading now, and don't stop. I've been keeping beardies for almost 3 years and I'm still learning new things.

A good place for you to start reading up is beautifuldragons.com. This place has lots of great info and is very thorough.

Good luck to you! Please come back and give us reports how everyone is doing!
http://www.beautifuldragons.com/

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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

one of 'em loved the water! according to my wife, it looked like he 'savored' it. lol! the other is walking around with the drop still on his nose .. weirdo! hehehe ..

the sand is exoterra desert sand. not sure if its calcium added or not. either way, im removing it when i get home.

i really dont know what kind of worms they are ... meal or wax ... they were 'thrown in' after picking them up on Monday evening .. and told us to store in the refrigerator. the only supplements he recommended was exoterra electrodize (?). a couple of drops per fluid oz of water. we're gonna start spraying the veggies with this too.

the enclosure is a 20gal tank .. 24x12x16 ... and we were told the BD would not outgrow it. At that time tho, we were looking at just one. Winding up with two is my fault for not being able to settle on just one. Since i'm stopping by to pick up some crickets, I'm def gonna ask about the possibility of returning one.

And I know what ur saying, kephy, about trusting petstore employees. But from talking with this guy, being the 'reptile manager' and all, and being as young as he is ... i got the definate feeling this guy was a 'reptile geek' .. and could trust his judgment. but i am reading as much as i can ... so thanks for the links. this forum is great!

>>one of 'em loved the water! according to my wife, it looked like he 'savored' it. lol! the other is walking around with the drop still on his nose .. weirdo! hehehe ..
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>>the sand is exoterra desert sand. not sure if its calcium added or not. either way, im removing it when i get home.
>>
>>i really dont know what kind of worms they are ... meal or wax ... they were 'thrown in' after picking them up on Monday evening .. and told us to store in the refrigerator. the only supplements he recommended was exoterra electrodize (?). a couple of drops per fluid oz of water. we're gonna start spraying the veggies with this too.
>>
>>the enclosure is a 20gal tank .. 24x12x16 ... and we were told the BD would not outgrow it. At that time tho, we were looking at just one. Winding up with two is my fault for not being able to settle on just one. Since i'm stopping by to pick up some crickets, I'm def gonna ask about the possibility of returning one.
>>
>>And I know what ur saying, kephy, about trusting petstore employees. But from talking with this guy, being the 'reptile manager' and all, and being as young as he is ... i got the definate feeling this guy was a 'reptile geek' .. and could trust his judgment. but i am reading as much as i can ... so thanks for the links. this forum is great!

Ok, time for me to "butt in" here LOL

1. that electrodize stuff should be put in the trash. Go out and either buy some of the T Rex superfoods dragon dust. The veggie growth formula.. or go buy some calcium WITH D3 and a multivitamin.
2. Saying a BD would not outgrow a regular 20 gal tank is ridiculous! I keep hatchlings in 20 long tanks and those are 30L x 12W x 13H. By about 6 months of age, your beardies could be 15" or more (with good care) and will require something like a 40 gallon breeder tank.
3. The worms sound like meal worms and if so, they are not good for young dragons. You MUST keep your basking temps at around 115 in order for them to digest the Chitin that mealies contain. If your basking temp reaches that high, you will NOT be able to have a cool end that is in the low 80's in that size tank. No way around that one besides buying a bigger tank.
4. Get that sand out of there ASAP. Replace with newspaper, paper towels or non adhesive shelf liner.

I have some basic info listed on my care page on my site. You can also email me with any other questions if you like.
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Lisa
Cricket free babies!
LIVE hatchling web cam 8 - 8 EST
www.beginnersbasics.com

I was gonna respond, but....

electrolize = bad
20 gallon for adult = bad
mealworms = bad
sand = bad

..... yep, you covered it!
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

>>I was gonna respond, but....
>>
>>electrolize = bad
>>20 gallon for adult = bad
>>mealworms = bad
>>sand = bad
>>
>>
>>..... yep, you covered it!

LOL beat ya to it!

Seems like another case of a misinformed pet store employee spouting off information that he has not researched himself or checked to be accurate! That store will have a lot of angry and upset people in a month or so when people's dragons start to die and develope MBD and other problems. Also, 4" is about hatchling size and I mean HATCHLING size .. straight out the egg size!!
All I can say is ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!! LOL
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Lisa
Cricket free babies!
LIVE hatchling web cam 8 - 8 EST
www.beginnersbasics.com

"But from talking with this guy, being the 'reptile manager' and all, and being as young as he is ... i got the definate feeling this guy was a 'reptile geek' .. and could trust his judgment."

I hate to say it, but from everything you've told us here, it sounds to me like he doesn't know a thing about beardies. I'm seeing red flags everywhere. Thank goodness there are responsible owners like you though, who are willing to go out looking and researching other opinions on the matter, instead of just sticking to what one person tells you. It may have just saved you and your beardies a lot of problems.
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2.0 bearded dragons (Ocho / Domo-kun)
0.1 kingsnake (Rio)
1.0 ferret (Playstation)
1.0 cat (Wally)
0.1 dog (Tima)

We are relatively new to beardies--our baby is 9 months old. After searching several pet shops we found one with an "experienced" manager who was very "enthusiasitc". He was selling 10 gallon set ups for baby beardies for $100 that included the baby, calci-sand, lights, dish, tank and top,thermometer--the works! He never mentioned that we would need a new tank very soon...He also never mentioned supplementing, said to leave the lights on all the time, banans were a staple, and that they drink from a water bowl. Again, he sounded very experienced. What he did not know is that we had good friends with a beardie and had been researching for several months. It was hard not to laugh! We left without purchasing anything. (Yesterday they were selling 10 day old beardies for $50!--makes me mad thinking about it!)

We purchased a baby from an experienced breader (from the boards here). Our baby was a bargain compared to what the pet shops were selling (we have a very orange beardie and they were selling normals for more $). Our first tank was a 20 gallon and we used paper towels at first and now use shelf liner. This tank lasted for about 7 months--by then he was stressed and really needed a bigger home. With 2 beardies you will need a larger tank in a few weeks! We now have an 80 gallon that he loves!

We have been using crickets for a staple--dusted with calcium/D3 dust (pink jar). Make sure you get the correct size crickets--no larger than the space between their eyes is the general rule. If you keep both babies then it will be much cheaper to purchase crickets on line--by the 1000's. Once they get settled they can eat 30-100 a day EACH!

We always offer a variety of veggies every morning mixed with pellets. Ours has never been a good veggie eater--but he has begun to show an increased interest. He gets a bath about 3 times a week--he hates it but it is the only time he takes in water besides mistings (which he hates too!).

My daughter has him "leash trained" and he loves going for walks outside. He is gentle enough that our 2 year old can easily handle him--only my hubby can't stand him! He is pretty easy to care for.

This board has been very helpful. Read as much as you can and ask EXPERIENCED owners any questions you have. The reptile manager I spoke to has NEVER owned a beardie--his experience was only in keeping them alive until they were sold!

DM

The reptile manager I spoke to has NEVER owned a beardie--his experience was only in keeping them alive until they were sold!
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>>DM

I LOVE that comment!
That is more true than many people seem to realize!
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Lisa
Cricket free babies!
LIVE hatchling web cam 8 - 8 EST
www.beginnersbasics.com

Sounds like our resident experts have given you good advise and I agree you are a good pet owner to look for knowledge. Good luck as a Beardie owner and I hope you have many happy years as one. They are great pets once you get the wrinkles of babyhood past you, which you are well on the way to doing. Keep in touch with the guys here and you will not go wrong.