Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello all,

I used to keep snakes when I was younger (an eastern hognose, corn snake, garter snake, and a fox snake). Recently, my sugar glider of nine years died, and I was thinking of trying a snake again.

I'm very interested in, and have read up on, Black Milk Snakes and Indigo Snakes. I wanted to get some opinions and pros and cons to each species (particularly if anyone has had experience with both speicies). Easy maintenence is desired, but not necessarily a deal breaker. Mostly, I'd prefer a tame, companion animal species (at least as far as reptiles go).

Thank you.

I have both of these...

Both snakes are very docile.

Black milks are cheaper (about $125-150 each), are great eaters, and can live at room temp. They average about 6' in length as adults.

Indigo snakes will cost about $400-€0 each, depending on who you get them from, whether they are black or red-chin variety, etc. They will need a larger enclosure as adults than black milks, and they poop a lot. They are also great eaters.

Since they both have about the same temperment, it really comes down to if you want to shell out the extra money for an Indigo, and if you can find one (usually there's a waiting list each year). You'll also have to get a permit to keep the indigo.

Good luck!

.

Hello,
Personally, I'd go with a black milk, I have a pair that are about 18 months old (see attached pic of female), and I think they're one of the best snakes out there. Here are some things to consider:

Black milks start out as tricolored babies, and gradually darken up during their first couple years of life. They are very easy to maintain, don't need any sort of special heating or light, and don't require any sort of special permits to keep or buy across state lines. They also won't hurt you if they bite you... although both snakes have very docile temperaments, they are also both very aggressive feeders, and if you accidentally make the sort of stupid feeding errors that we all do from time to time (nobody's perfect!) the black milk will never send you to the ER for stitches. Also, if you're interested in breeding, black milks are very easy to breed, they don't even require brumation like a typical colubrid. Pretty much the easiest snake in the world to keep.

I've never kept an indgo, unfortunately it is illegal here in Maine. Check your state laws; depending on where you live, it may not be legal for you either. Unless you can find a breeder in your state, you'll have to get a federal permit... not difficult, but a bit of a hassle. Indigos are more expensive, both initially and in terms of feeding, cleaning, and housing. They have high metabolisms and love to eat, then spraypaint the walls of their enclosures with feces. Black milks leave nice neat little poops on the substrate that are easy to scoop out with a small plastic cup. Indigo cages have to be hosed off and wiped down frequently. Since indigos are not constrictors, they have much more powerful jaws than a black milk, like a pair of pliers made of razor blades. Get your fingers between them and lunch, and you'll be in a world of pain. They will also need a much larger enclosure. Breeding indigos isn't easy either, even the most experienced keepers have seasons where, for no apparent reason, they just can't get a successful clutch.

I'm not trying to turn you off to indigos, they are one of the most beautiful, powerful, intelligent, and majestic species out there. If it were legal, and time and money were no object, I'd have a pair myself. Indigos are the reason I got into black milks, actually. But, indigos require a lot of work, dedication, and patience. If you just want a big black snake that looks cool and is easy to take care of, the black milk is definitely the way to go.

Just my opinion.
Nate

Thanks (to all) for the info. Very helpful.

Yeah, the comments on intelligence have me ver interested in the Indigo (not to mention the attraction to the idea of having the most powerful sanke in North America

But the easy maintnence of the Black Milk snake has me in that corner.

I noticed there is an Indigo breeder in my state (IL) and not very far away...so I might try an contact him and see if I can have a look at a live animal (which might help me decide).

Either way, thanks for the advice!

I agree 100%. I don't have the time to commit to Indigos and that being the case I will most likely never own any. I still love to see pics of them and read about them though. I keep Mexican Black Kings and Black Milks and love them both. If I get another Black snake it will be Pines. I need to get some pics posted on these forums. My female Nigritis is pretty huge, even when she's not gravid..like she is now

Hey, out of the black king and the black milk...which do you like better? How do they differ?

My Kings will use the hot spot in thier cages, moreso the female. My Milks are at room temp and do fine. The feeding response is stronger from the Kings, most of the time the Milks will let me pic them up without using a hook to initially lift them while the Kings will want to bite once in a while. Once they know they're not being fed they are mellow as can be though. Both are nice and glossy and look very similar but the scales on the Milk are much larger. My female King is gravid now and she is huge. She is a very muscular snake, very firm and strong. My Milks are young but are destined to outgrow the Kings and a nice 5-6 foot Milk is just really cool to hold. Both types grow fast and are very easy to work with. I found breeding the Kings almost effortless, including incubation of the eggs. It is a great beginner snake. This year when putting the female in with the male for the first time he gave her a love bite on the neck before her body even hit the ground and mounted her within the first minute of introduction. I think the Milks are better if you want a snake that requires little effort to care for. They just thrive at room temperature. The price for the Milks has come down a lot over the past few years too, so more people can enjoy owning them. However I feel the Kings are very underated. We all bow to the mighty Indigo as the King of Black snakes but a nice shiny King or Milk is really a cool pet to have.

they get almost indigo size length and grith wise, and despite having keeled scales, are a glossy black

How do the pines do? Expense? Maintnence? Tameness?

my black pine female is running me 150 shipped. males should be somewhat less. pines definatly have more spunk than kings and milks, and they will let you know if they are having a bad day. which is similar to indigos: indigos will hiss and puff their throats if they are alarmed or irritable, pines will puff up and hiss so loud that someone in the next room can hear it. for the most part its a bluff, as i have handled many puffy hissy pines and never gotton bit. they tend to stay active when held, and so they are more interesting when doing an education program or showing off to a friend. overall, i think pines have a great personality and are a very refreshing addition to any elaphe, lampropeltis, or python collection with their unique personalities. they are addicting!

pines also seem to have a slightly faster metabolism compared to kings and milks. they can seem to put out a lot of waste, but ive noticed mine seem to "get it all out" at one time, compared to my kings who seem to pinch off a bit every couple days. pines are rodent specialists, and babies start off as 18" fat fuzzy killers. doesnt take them long to graduate to hoppers, adult mice, large adult mice,small rats, and med rats, which a 7' adult can slam in minutes.plus, their color actually improves with age!

BTW, this applies to Pituophis(bull, pine, gopher snakes) as a whole.

greg

I don't have personal experience with indigos, but I maintain some black milks. However, I say with a high degree of certainty that black milks...

1. require lower maintenance temperatures than indigos
2. require less food than indigos
3. require less space than indigos
4. don't bite nearly so hard (in case you're bitten) as indigos
5. are extremely calm and docile as adults
6. become just as black as indigos
7. are easier to breed than indigos
8. regularly attain a length of 5 feet or more (max is over 7)