Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Lots of lizards...TMTC sceloperus, uta, eumeces, elgaria, etc. Saw one cnemidopherus in deep sagebrush. Cool animal. Bit like the dickens.

2 Charina bottae, six feet apart under roadside debris. Still haven't found one on Mt. Hamilton...

2 Pittupohis catenifer. One on Mt. Hamilton, other in Felton.

1 Crotalus virdis.

TMTC Diadophis punctatus

1 Masticophis flagellum (same one as before, under same board.)

3 Lampropeltis getulus, all juveniles.

Zillions of Taricha torosa.

3 Rana catesbiana.

Several Rana aurora (in posted preserve habitat, next to a municipal dump.)

Hordes of batrachoseps hatchlings (nearly microscopic)in bayside flood control slackwater/reclamation areas.

I did find one of the getulus in what seems like prime zonata habitat (correct elevation, exposure, rock formation, etc.) Can I hope to find a zonata there? I would think that the one would eat the other, which would make things dicey for the Z. The thing is, I didn't expect to find the getulus at such a high elevation.
Anybody ever found the two of them close by each other?

A lot of critters have gone back under cover because the weather has turned cool. Likely this will change fairly soon.

Until then...

Are you sure that you found M. flagellum and not M. lateralis?

To my knowledge, L. zonata does not coexist with L. getula in the San Gabriel Mountains, LA County; it is presumed one out competes there other.

L. getula and L.zonata do coexist in many areas and probably in nearly all areas in CA under 4,000 feet. I have found them together in most of the coast ranges. In a given area, one usually will predominate, however. A friend of mine road-cruised a freshly-hit getula with an adult zonata protruding from it's stomach in a redwood area of CA.
The idea that they are mutually exclusive is common. I think that most people get caught up in the fact that they are both classified as "kingsnakes." Think of all the other snakes that coexist with L. getula, however, and do not get eaten, or outcompeted. The niche of L. zonata is crevice/rock dwelling lizard eater, while the getula prefers more open, grassy/chaparral/Oak woodland habitat and is more cosmopolitan in diet. In many areas of CA, you can find great getula habitat and zonata habitat together.

To my knowledge, L. zonata does not coexist with L. getula IN THE SAN GABRIEL MOUNTAINS, LA County; it is presumed one out competes there other.

A friend of mine road-cruised a freshly-hit getula with an adult zonata protruding from it's stomach

The niche of L. zonata is crevice/rock dwelling lizard eater, while the getula prefers more open, grassy/chaparral/Oak woodland habitat

I think I said enough.

I have found zonata and getula occupying the same rock crevice in the Sierras and found them in the Coast Range in the same manner bgerman described.

It is understandable that the two exist together. But how about in the San Gabriel Mountains, does anyone have proof that they exist together there? To my knowledge they have never been found together in that range.

I wouldn't doubt that at the low elevation part of zonatas range there is some overlap with getula in most or all of the ranges they occur in. Like Ben said where they occur together at the same elevations they mostly each stick to different microhabitats. To answer your question, no I don't have any experience with the San Gabriels, but I have no reason to believe they would be any different. Now I'm not saying they coexist just that they can occur at the same elevation but primaraly in different habitat. The coast is unique because winters gets cold enough for zonata (especially in the wooded canyons) but not too cold for getula (especially on open sunny southfacing hillsides). So in Santa Cruz it is certainly possible that in prime zonata habitat one could occasionally find getula and vice versa.

I have found L.g.californiae and L.z.parvirubra within feet of each other on East Fork Road in the San Gabriel Mountains. I have also found them very close to each other at the bottom of Hwy 39 just above the condos and apartments. I have observed this not only in the San Gabriels but in several mountain ranges throughout the state of California. Zonata utilize more habitats than most think. From moist shaded canyons to the driest sun baked chaparral covered slopes. Their "micro habitat" is not so "micro" as it seems. I've observed californiae well up in to the pines (Even using the same rock outcrop as zonata) throughout California as well.

Paul Lynum

What exactly are you trying to say? I was illustrating how the two species occur in the same exact areas, but have slightly different microhabitats.
In other words, in most mountain ranges in CA under 4-5,000 feet, you can very easily find both species within feet of one another.
In additional other words, just becuase you have getula in a given area does not mean that you can't find zonata there.
In more additional other words getula don't eat all the zonata and don't eat all of the zonata's food.

What exactly are you trying to say?

>>>>Fieldnotes ask the question if anyone has found zonata and getula toghether in the San Gabriel Mountains. I answered his question and gave two vague observations.

Zonata and getula typically live in the same areas but, use different micro-habitats, most of the time. Occasionally the two do live in the same rock outcrop as I have observed. There was no point I was trying to make. I was trying to share experiences. Ben, I agree for the most part everything you said.

When are you coming back to CA? Thinks are moving in force here.

I was responding to Fieldnotes post, not yours.

Thanks for the clarification. Plus, point well made about the "out-competetion" issue. This is exactly what my instincts told me, but since I'm fairly new to the area I thought I'd defer to greater experience. I'll comb the spot for zonata once the weather warms, expecting, on your encourgagement, to find them there.

A zonata INSIDE a getula!? Is there by some chance a photo of this encounter? Now THAT would get some responses...

Regards.