Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi! Have any of you heard of Axantic, Hypomelanistic, Granite and Leucistic Carpet Pythons before? The reason why I asked is because I have just seen a Japanese homepage advertising such carpet morphs! I wonder is it true or just salesmanship?

Thanks!

First off Im not the best to answer this, but I will try.

Hi! Have any of you heard of Axantic, Hypomelanistic, Granite and Leucistic Carpet Pythons before?

- Yes. The first Carpet morph was a Jaguar Python produced from the Jaguar Breeding center. Since then several new or different forms of the jag were produced (Hypo, red-hypo, banana, Lecustic....).

The only axantic carpet or granite I have seen were posted by Cori Nguyen (sp? sorry). from Snakeroom.net awile back.

I would also be intereted to hear from anyone with factual responses. I am gettin gdeeper and deeper into my carpets pythons, and spendng more money on nicer and nicer animals. I recently saw an add in the classifed's for Granite IJ's. there were pics that looked awesome! Anyone actually seen these, or any other true carpet morphs besides the jaguars?

Thanks,

T~

here is your Axantic(sp) carpet

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/index.pl?photo=106947

The axanthic in that pic looks like a typical black and white Jungle Carept to me. Maybe Cori will come on and give us some background on it.

-Yasser
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See this is what I mean...noone has a true consensus as to what true morphs, besides jags, are out there. Is it an Axanthic, or is it a Balck and white....let keep this thread goin...time to work the bugs out gang. BTW, if thats just a normal Blk/Wht, I want a pair. Awesome animal.

S~

...Cori's Axanthic Coastal Carpet (which is only one of several owned by Henric in Sweden) are legit proven morphs.

Aside from the Axanthics and Jaguars, there are also other proven genetic Carpet morphs, ...such as the Tiger or Tri-Striped Coastal, the Granite Irian Jaya (from Holland), and a couple of others I am not at liberty to discus at the moment.
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Will Leary
Reptilicus Reptiles

I think you can just post a pic!!

a morph is a trait that has been proven genetic in some way or another. At least this is the definition I have always gone by.
So if abiding by this definition, there really are only three morphs. Irian Jaya Granites, Tri-striped Coastals (some call them "Tiger" but I dunno why) and Coastal Jaguars.
I think we have what may eventually turn out to be a genetic type of Jaguarish Irian Jaya. But I am not in a hurry to call them anything fancy until I know that is a truly heritable trait. There is much too much naming of certain odd characteristics in many snake species long before they are proven genetic or not. That is one of the things that has so much confusion.

The black and white Jungles are merely a locale of Jungle that occurs naturally in Australia and they are not considered to be axanthic. The B W color is not genetically linked in any way.

We all must remember that every species out there has a variability to their outward appearance. It becomes a morph when these things are found to be heritable. Just my opinion though...with a couple of facts thrown in.

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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>>a morph is a trait that has been proven genetic in some way or another. At least this is the definition I have always gone by.
>>So if abiding by this definition, there really are only three morphs. Irian Jaya Granites, Tri-striped Coastals (some call them "Tiger" but I dunno why) and Coastal Jaguars.
>>I think we have what may eventually turn out to be a genetic type of Jaguarish Irian Jaya. But I am not in a hurry to call them anything fancy until I know that is a truly heritable trait. There is much too much naming of certain odd characteristics in many snake species long before they are proven genetic or not. That is one of the things that has so much confusion.
>>
>>The black and white Jungles are merely a locale of Jungle that occurs naturally in Australia and they are not considered to be axanthic. The B W color is not genetically linked in any way.
>>
>>We all must remember that every species out there has a variability to their outward appearance. It becomes a morph when these things are found to be heritable. Just my opinion though...with a couple of facts thrown in.
>>
>>-Yasser
>>Spitfire Reptiles
>>
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>>
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Takes all kinds to make a World...

"The B & W color is not genetically linked in any way."

Yasser, I think you might want to rephrase that.

Jake

Now that I know that the axanthic Carpets overseas have been proven genetic, I guess I must eat my words in a way. But not quite. The axanthics may be proven but black white Jungles actually are not. If you breed a B W Jungle to a black and gold Jungle, you will get animals that are Black and white, black and gold and black and cream colored. This is due to mixing of certain traits that are not genetic traits but traits of propensity, meaning that they will not always breed true.
Kinda like breeding a line of corn snakes that have less and less black. That does not make them hypo.
Or back to carpets....breeding two 50/50 Jungles together does not neccessarily mean you will get all 50/50s. You probably get a handful of more normal looking ones in the clutch. You guys follow what I am saying?

-Yasser

>>"The B & W color is not genetically linked in any way."
>>
>>Yasser, I think you might want to rephrase that.
>>
>>Jake
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Here's what I was getting at: You said it wasn't genetically linked in any way. However, it IS genetic--it's just not a simple recessive or dominant mutation. It's sort of like those crazy IJs of yours. It's definitely genectics that are causing them to be colored like that as opposed to incubation temperatures, etc.

Jake

In Australia we have had Hypermelanistic Darwin carpets(M.s.variegata), Hypomelanistic coastal carpets(M.s.McDowelli) and Albino Darwin carpets(M.s.variegata).

Unfortunately for you guys in the US and the rest of the world, you probably won't see any of these individual animals because as you are aware, Australia doesn't allow any animals out of the country.

Neil

Hi,

Here is the axanthic.. It is the result of two seemingly normal coastal parents. Approx. 25% of the clutch look this way. This animial is truely silver and black, also, note the blue contrast in the nasal and pre-frontal area scales...
Also, an awesome looking head pattern, though completely unrelated to the Jaguar bloodline..

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Is there any chance you can get pics of the parents of the axanthics? Exactly how many have been produced so far? And how many breedings? And have these been used yet in any Jag projects? Thanks!

-Yasser
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I'll see what I can put together, ... my dear friend Henric is still recovering from his cobra bite, I talked to him earlier, and he is going to try and jump in on this thread ...
C
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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Here is one of our true hypos...
Not sure on the genetics yet...

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

This one speaks for itself, we believe it to be a simple recessive gene, ...

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Apparently they are also a lot less agressive than normals, or so the original breeder told me. Interesting looking animals. I would love to see a nice yellow jungle with this kind of mutation. How much are they going for in the US?

>>This one speaks for itself, we believe it to be a simple recessive gene, ...
>>
>>-----
>>Best Regards,
>>Cori
>> SnakeRoom.net
>>

I dunno about other folks IJs but of the 25 or so IJ we have in our collection and many more we've had in the past, we have never had a problem with aggression. I think IJs are actually some of the clamest carpets out there.
To be honest, if they are too passive, they can be difficult to get feeding as babies. Personally, I think a little selective breeding would be enough to get some consistently brighter colors in this morph. There would be no need to cross it to a Jungle. But I am sure it will happen because it is human nature to cut corners to achieve something "better" faster.

The gentleman offering these is selling them for approx. $8600 US ea. I was offered some of these a couple fo years ago for far less. I guess he figured he can make more now. It is a beautiful morph that someday we hope to work with. But for now, that is too rich for my pocketbook, not to mention the risks involved in exporting them from overseas.

-Yasser
Spitfire Reptiles

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Here is the leucistic, unfortunately it died shortly after hatching... we believe it to be the "Super" form of the jaguar gene...
Who knows what kind of offspring we'll see when these are bred...

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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

Sorry for being MIA for the past 2 days, and thanks for all the information, especially Cori generous sharing of his pics. I have received a few mails asking for the URL of the Jap homepage that I mentioned, and here it is.

http://home.d02.itscom.net/m-reptor/index.html

This is a rather new homepage that I have learned from a friend of mine, and it seems that it is not completely done yet. Anyway, for the benefit of those who do not read Japanese, a summary of the content is as follows.

1) The owner of the HP claims that his/her friend, whose name is Afors had successfully bred the jaguar, axantic, hypomelanistic, granite and lucistic carpet �gmutations�h (no mentioning of specific carpet).

2) Afors mentioned that he may be able to �gsupply�h the said �gmutations�h in future.

3) The owner of the HP claims that 9 of the 2003 �ghypomelanistic line�h carpets were sold to him/her and those who are interested can contact him/her.

4) He/she is taking order for the 2005 jaguars.

Hence, it seems that the owner of the HP probably has not successfully bred any of the �gmorphs�h yet, and those �gmorphs�h (if true) were actually produced by Afors. Now, can anybody tell me who is Afros (a picture of him is in the HP, that is if the pic is genuine)? I am just curious, but the pics of those �gmorphs�h shown in the HP look similar to those pics posted by Cori. Cori, do you know anything about this? If so, can you tell me more?

Thanks.

Looks like that Japenese website is using ALL of Henrics photos! They even have a pic of "Henric" on there! LOL. Cori, do they have his permission to do this?
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Will Leary
Reptilicus Reptiles

Thanks Will. So �gAfors�h could be referring to Henrics. I am trying to verify who exactly is �gAfors�h and will post if I have any information.

Whoah, I just saw that! I know we have a few customers over there, but I'm sure Henric hasn't seen that site yet.. I'll have to let him know!!

Cori
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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net

That's Henric, his last name is Afors..
Thanks for linking that site, ... we have a few customers in Japan, and those are our pics for sure, ... I'll have to send the link to Henric....
Cori
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Best Regards,
Cori
SnakeRoom.net