Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So i found three of these in the last 2 days in NW ohio. It was in a metropark but nowhere near water (there is a river and floodplain in the park though) but it was found in the middle of a prairie. Someone in another forum told me that it might be a melanistic northern or mabye isolated copperbellies. Its belly is solid but the chin is light gray/white. Its scales seem too keeled to be a garter. Any input?

Something about it just doesn't seem right to be water. I could be wrong, and maybe it is just the melanistic coloration, but it just really doesn't seem to have the right "shape" I suppose.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

I thought the same thing Andy, but the strongly keeled scales and relatively thick body said Nerodia to me. It's the head that for some reason doesn't look right for a Nerodia.

It may well end up being a (fat) melanistic Thamnophis, as several people have maintained. (Do they also have dark underbellies?) But I'm not ready to give up completely on N. erythrogaster (Copperbelly) or maybe a melanistic sipedon (northern Water). I've found plainbellies on occasion in places remarkably distant from water. Sometimes they seem to act more like garters than "true" water snakes!
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MichaelB

It seems a lot blacker than any N.erythrogaster I've ever dealt with, however is behaviour might help in this aspect. Did it flatten out and start striking before you got all that close? When picked up, did it gape its mouth and try striking repeatedly, no matter how gently you handled it? Just wondering, because that is how every N.erythrogaster I've ever encountered in the wild(and I've come across a lot!) have reacted.
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Conrad
Too Fast Reptiles
www.toofastreptiles.bravehost.com

Thanks for all the input, i realize now its a melanistic garter. =) Although he spends more time in the water part of his setup than the land.

its a northen water snake they dont have to be near water tho

It really is a garter, as the original poster mentioned. Doesn't look much like a water to me at all, other than the scales. Head is wrong.
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Andy Maddox
AIM: SurfAndSkimTx04
MSN: Poloboy32486@hotmail.com
Yahoo:surfandskimtx04
Houston Herp Key
The Reptizone

Burgundy baby, With your blue eyed soul, You play the hits and I'm on that roll, Capricorn sister, Freddie Mercury, Jupiter Child cry

The snake pictured is a melanistic eastern garter (Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis). This color morph is fairly common in Northern Ohio and some of the islands in Lake Erie. Years ago I used to drive down from Michigan and hunt for them, and found them regularly (late 80's).

Scott

It is definatly a melanistic garter, Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis, which metropark were they from? Do you still have them?