Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm still interested in your very healthy looking yet unsupplemented monitors. It makes sense to me that as long as the environmental conditions are adequate for the monitor to properly digest a something with bones then it should be getting plenty of calcium. My question is do you start hatchlings off on insects and if so how soon do you move them on to pinkies?
Thanks.

First, there are some things that bother me about your question, things I do not understand. Things that I see here often.

You asked about "they" does that mean, those four monitors, or all monitors, or the monitors you have or intend to have? You must consider, "they" all have a different answer.

Then I get the feeling this conversation/question is going the direction of UV bulbs.

Before we get to the "theys" lets nip this in the bulb.

UV Bulbs, calicum, vitamins, anti-biotics(medicine), etc, are tools of husbandry. That is, they are there to be used as needed. They are not necessarily used all the time. In fact, very much the opposite, they should be used when all else fails. With medicine, its easy to understand that, yet some people treat their animals on a regular basis.

With UV bulbs and vitamins and calicum, its a little harder to understand. Yet, overuse of some vitamins has an adverse effect, so does overexposure to UV.

So why are people constantly throwing all of these at their monitors. In my opinion, they are ignorant as to whats really needed. So in their ernest attempt at keeping their monitors healthy, they use these are crutches. They hope these will cover their weaknesses. Yes, some even give anti-biotics on a regular basis, some treat captive hatched monitors for parasites, etc, etc. I imagine, they all think they are doing good.

Because of this need to fix, they only need the slightest provocation. Any conformation that their thoughts are useful and off they go.

Why do I consider that a problem? Its simple, unstead of developing sound husbandry, they go in the direction of "patching holes" You know, the dutch boy with his finger in the damn, soon he will run out of fingers.

In my opinion, it masks weaknesses in your husbandry. You can develop husbandry techniques that do not require the constant use of these things. These things now can go back to the shelf and wait until they are needed.

I had a bit of a head start, I first started breeding lizards in 1961 and snakes in 1964. What I am proud of is, I have bred reptiles every year since. We did not have UV bulbs or vitamins, or calicum. So I used regular lite bulbs, same as now. I had to develop husbandry that did not require these crutches. Not to be all this and that, but our results from regular bulbs and not supplimenting is at the top of the list of accomplishments, not on the bottom or middle. I surely do not believe believe its as good as it gets, its simply as good or better then the rest.

As the years passed, all of a sudden, its popular to keep and breed reptiles, then commerical products pop up, then now, there is a need to use them. But there wasn't a need before they were commerical. You can figure that out.

Back to the begining, THEY, is not a good way to look at captives. I like to look at them as individuals. That one needs this, this one needs that, not "they" need this and that.

If you meant those four in the picture, then the gouldi was started on crickets, the rest may have never had a cricket. I cannot say how long "gouldi" stay on crickets, they do until they don't.

One little story about UV and calicum. Many years back, I had my first experience with Calicum def. I hatched some Whitethroats and was raising them up. Indoors with regular litebulbs. First understand, this species is not my favorite(this is important) Well three developed rubber legs and jaws. Well, I can fix that, I will put them outside where we have the best UV bulb in the nation. It was summer and in summer, we have the highest skin cancer rate in the world(tied with someplace in Queensland Au) So UVA and UVB will be plentyfull. Guess what? it did not fix them.

What did fix them and why? Well to my surprise, what I read about Calicum problems was not very complete. These whitethroats did not suffer from the inability to convert D-1 to D-3, but instead, a simple lack of calicum. They were growing very fast, there use of calicum was greater then their intake of calicum. The problem was, I simply was not feeding them enough for their rate of growth. What I now call, lack of support. U see, because they were not my favorite species, they were last of the olde totum pole to get fed.

So all and all, its about my ignorance, you see, forty years ago, you did not need UV bulbs, forty years ago, you did not need vitamins, forty years ago, you did not need to treat for parasites, forty years ago if I did my work and provided the right conditions, none of that was needed. And forty years ago, mice as a diet worked just fine. Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying mice are the best, it simply seems to work just fine. thanks FR

FR: Very good points. I've never used UV lights, but feed a high quality diet; which is most important. I know when I first starting keeping V. dumerilii (which is my fav) I didn't care about care sheets or any advice so I learned the hard way. Boy o boy I wish I would have listened, especially when it was coming straight from one of the best in the monitor world.
Here's a pic I just took 2 minutes ago of one of my V. dumerilii:

Here's another:

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Greg Holland
G&M HERPS
www.imageevent.com/gmherps
gmherps@sbcglobal.net

Wow. That was a much longer and more informative reply than I was expecting. Thanks for taking the time. The "they" thing is probably a bad habit I've picked up from reading too many formulaic caresheets. I hope I don't come across as trying to pick holes in your husbandry techniques. I ask you questions because you have had so much experience working with animals that I am interested in.
Thanks again.

Not a problem, actually husbandry is an ever changing thing, or at least it should be. As you gain new degrees of success, you must always keep changing to fix the holes.

Really the only way for you to poke holes in my husbandry is to do achieve better results then I, and frankly, I would love that, then I could copy you and poke holes in yours, hahahahahahahaha Good luck FR

You said that the animal was suffering from a lack of calcium. At this point were you feeding insects or rodents? Maybe I didn't read your response thouroughly enough. I feel that if these things aren't necessary, I shouldn't be wasting my money on things like vitamins and UV bulbs! I am new to varanids and have been told by people at reptile shops like the east bay vivarium that I NEED this stuff. How do you supply enough calcium to your babies whien they are on an all-insect diet? I would really enjoy not spending an extra 6 bucks on Ca, another 6 on a multivitamin and 30 dollars every 6 months on new UV bulbs. Is it all about a nice varied high calcium gut loading of insects? I can understand that necessary calcium and vitamins and stuff can be supplied when rodents are being fed... its just the insects im wondering about. I think I may be getting repetative now, so I will stop.

Yeah. Give me a few decades and I'll get back to you.
Cheers