Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Its still to soon for me to know exactly the poor and cons of a dirt habitat, more time and tests will need to be performed. As you know IV set up 5 Saharans on millet and 5 on sand clay mix with the only exception to the millet cage being the possibility to hydro-regulate and access to drinking water. How did this affect the uromastyx? The first obvious way was a burst in activity levels (more then double in time) second there faecal are much smaller with some uric acid, when compared to my millet group the fecal pallets look 2 time the size with approximately 20-30% undigested millet seeds, now aim not going to sacrifice any of my uromastyx to make sure, however I can assume that 20-30% of there digestive system and intestine are filled with these seeds, lets assume they can easily pass these without a problem, how those seeds affect digestibility? Who’d this 20-30% space be used by other nutrients? Can a distended stomach lead to obesity? As we know in humans the more we eat the more we want to eat, as I said it’s too early for me to have answers yet, if you have ideas pleas let them be known.

One thing aim quit sure about, when I got these guys they where kept on millet, shod I have not bath them no dough some who’d be dead by now.

Rgds

I think it's probably safe to assume that ingesting sand or soil is going to give more problems than ingesting millet. Where do you get the idea that they still have 20-30% or the millet inside of them? If they are passing it, they are probably passing all of it (or almost all of it). It's sand and other fine grain substrates that they only pass very little of. When they ingest any amount of sand, most of it will usually stick to their intestinal wall. If they are eating and pooping enough, it usually doesn't affect them, because they will continue to pass it a little at a time. I don't think millet is really going to harm them as long as it's the soft kind. The millet doesn't stick to their intestines like sand does, so it just travels along with the rest of the crap and is passed. If they eat a ton at a time, I would think it MIGHT cause an impaction. The amount they usually eat (if fed enough greens and veggies) is easily passed.

Basically, ya know when you eat corn? Well, millet is basically like that to them.

also, I've been doing some research, and it appears as though using soil with uros is not at all new. I have a general lizards book from a few years back (late 90's I believe) and I was reading about uro care, and I know it said something about using a thick layer of burrowable soil. It went on to talk about the burrows they would naturally build in the wild. They made sure to state that you need to keep the top of the soil dry with minimal humdity. I also read in a bearded dragon book that sandy soil has been, and can be used with them, though the only difference that was noticed in animals kept on it were that their colors were much darker. I mainly just found it interesting that the soil thing isn't really as new as we all think. This sort of makes me wonder why it didn't catch on before though.

when you were talking about bathing, you meant to hydrate them. Ok. i got it confused with something to do with impactions. Disregard what I said before. I've never really NEEDED to bath my uro to hydrate her. I make sure that her veggies are basically soaking in water, so she's probably getting more water than food from them. This keeps her hydrated well. I did give her bathes before, but that was to get her clean, since her previous owner had her in a 10 gallon tank where she was just sitting in her own filth. Also, the size of the poo is comepletely dependent on how much they eat.

were the uros more active in the soil setup or the millet? I didn't really get what you were saying. Also, what type of activity? Keep in mind that to make this really scientific, all other variables besides substrate have to be controlled. You basically need to take exact measurements of everything you put into it (food, temps, etc.) and make them the same for both setups.

Aim sorry for not being clear, I meant more active on dirt as they like to dig, also iv been using dirt sins the early 1980s with my reptiles, what’s new to me is millet iv seen it for the first time a month ago! My first impression was wow it looks good its light weigh and my uromastyx can eat it to, must be the best substrata for them, however aim now having second tots about this, that’s why aim investigating how useful it really is.
Perhaps the limited success breeders have when acclimating the benties and Sudanese also Saharans have pushed me to investigate other options.

in 26 years of herpetology, in my private collection and in the 10,000s wc and cb we import yearly, trust me they eat all kinds of debris leafs dirt sand rocks you name it, as we use regular dirt taken from outside, how many case of impaction do you think iv seen?

Rgds

Also millet stays in the uromastyx system till its defecated, so it’s always present on any given time.

For me it's sort of the opposite thing. Though I've only had my reptiles for about 1.5 years (bearded dragon first, and more recently the mali uro), I'm more used to sand, millet, and the other substrates commonly used, so I'm a little weary about dirt and stuff. I also don't think it will be possible for me to do a big dirt setup like robyn uses, mainly because putting a cage made from a big trough up in my room with hundreds of pounds of dirt doesn't quite seem feasable. I'm not sure what would be better though for my uro. I'm basically between either doing sand as the standard substrate, and then doing a nest box with dirt, or just doing a thin layer of dirt all of the way through the tank. Maybe a thin layer of dirt and a nest box. I wouldn't feel as pressured to decide right now, but I'm hoping to get her a new cage when I get the money, and dirt would be the deciding factor, because putting dirt in a wooden enclosure is asking for trouble. I would really prefer some stacking wooden cages as opposed to just more aquariums, but I'm still confused about it all now. What are your opinions?

How many impactions have you seen? I'm going to assume 0 from the way you said. The only reason I'm a little nervous about impaction is because I started with my bearded dragon on the bearded dragon forum, and there are quite a few documented impactions of bearded dragons. I take extra precaution though (feed with a big bowl and I don't feed insects in the cage).

I think I remembered you saying earlier that you don't mind parasites? There are a lot of reptile parasites out there that will drastically weaken the reptile and possibly lead to death. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you meant by that too?

thanks

Ryan let me share some past experience with you, perhaps this will get some concern of your shoulders, back in 86 to 89 I produced a few clutch of bearded and chuckwallas, at the time I was living on the third floor of an apartment building, therefore my cages hade no dirt whatsoever, my substrata was natural river gravel it was very dry except for a plastic shoe box with a little dirt from my neighbours garden (hope she doesn’t read this) anyway hers the part for you! On the inside top I attached a maxi pad, then all I needed was to ad water when ever I tot it was needed, I guess a sponge who’d also work, if your raising insect a maxi pad is an excellent way to provide water. You see its not necessary to give them the hole nine yards of dirt, what’s really important is to cover there basic needs, allowing them to thermo regulate is good but if you also allow them to hydro-regulate its even better.

Lately Iv talked with several uromastyx trappers in Iran Somalia Tunisia and a personal friend on a military base in Ethiopia that helped me gather a few species, what’s funny is that no uromastyx species live in very dry habitat, sure they live in very hot climate but they can always retreat to a borrow or crevice that has moisture (if they choose to)

As for parasite theirs a lot to say about them, I keep getting into arguments even with biologist and veterinarians about how I deal with parasite, I think maybe most peoples aren’t ready to use my way of dealing with parasites, as my sole treatment is all about husbandry, no drugs ever. I have one uromastyx out of ten that shows obvious sings of parasites, I see him every day and monitor any progress, sometime it’s a very slow road to recovery other time they snap out of it pretty fast, and this one is a slow guy. He eats little hides a lot during they day but comes to bask at 2am and stays out till 5-6am, I call him my insomniac, I simply live him alone for now, any manipulation who’d cause more harm then good, so I make sure he has access to water food temps and that others don’t stress him. Shod he start going downhill I will put him in sick bay in a cage just for him so I can keep a better eye on him and do everything that’s needed for him to survive and get better, to date aim not worried he’s doing pretty good moving a lot and eating basking, thin but not that bad. I still need to see how herbivores can ride themselves of internal parasites.

Rgds